School shooting Florida

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Skeptic Ginger said:
That's both a false dichotomy and a straw man all rolled into one.

Are you answering someone in particular that makes your statement relevant?

Keeping deadly kids out of schools is one issue.

Keeping weapons capable of rapid killing en masse out of the hands of kids is another.

Limiting access to weapons capable of rapid killing en masse is another.

At a minimum making it harder for any homicidal person to rack up the body count is a valuable action to take. There is no reason people need 100-bullet clips. And the fact people can modify guns or drive cars into pedestrian crowds is not a valid reason to take no action whatsoever against rapid fire guns.

Prove you have a need for such armament. There's nothing in the second amendment that says people have a right to any arms they want. If that were true people should be able to own SAMs, who cares they might shoot a plane down.

Make it harder, you will at least see fewer deaths.
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My surprise (and a happy one) is that as far as I know no one has gone to a school (or other such) with a shotgun that works like a multi shot rifle or pistol (auto load but not full auto function). That would be more effective at shorter distances. I am pretty sure this info will not cause anyone here to try such though.
 
William Parcher said:
I don't think we had heard Peterson's account at all. I don't think he ever spoke to the press.
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But the sheriff's department did hear his account, and yet they suspended him without pay and forced his retirement.

If it had been something as simple as "he mistakenly thought the gunshots were coming from outside, so he ran there first intending to confront the shooter", his getting kicked to the curb and shamed in a public press conference by the sheriff doesn't make sense. Chances are, the investigators did not find that story credible. Maybe because after nearly five minutes of standing around out there and not actually finding any shooters or victims he didn't take any other action.
 
Checkmite said:
But the sheriff's department did hear his account, and yet they suspended him without pay and forced his retirement.

If it had been something as simple as "he mistakenly thought the gunshots were coming from outside, so he ran there first intending to confront the shooter", his getting kicked to the curb and shamed in a public press conference by the sheriff doesn't make sense. Chances are, the investigators did not find that story credible. Maybe because after nearly five minutes of standing around out there and not actually finding any shooters or victims he didn't take any other action.
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Or Occam's Razor... he's been made a scapegoat for the department's incompetence....
 
smartcooky said:
Fresh Southern Pork... don't ya just love it?

I assume that's Delta Airlines, yes? The simple answer to that tactic, Delta pulls its scheduled services to and from every airport in Georgia ... howdya like them apples Loo Tenant Governor!?
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Atlanta is a major Delta hib

Perhaps THE major Delta hub.

It would destroy Atlanta airporr to pull Delta
 
smartcooky said:
Fresh Southern Pork... don't ya just love it?

I assume that's Delta Airlines, yes? The simple answer to that tactic, Delta pulls its scheduled services to and from every airport in Georgia ... howdya like them apples Loo Tenant Governor!?
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Delta is headquartered in Atlanta. Its airport serves as their hub. They'd lose their shirts if they stopped flying to Atl, unless some other state gave them incentives to leave that is.

Eta: Ninjad but yeah Atl is THE hub for them. Good to see the GOP respecting "freedom of association" for corporations (that was sarcasm).
 
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Ambrosia said:
Shouldn't some kind of gun licensing be on the table for discussion after events like this at the very least?

The Florida school shooter could be the poster child for "people who should absolutely not have access to firearms"
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I don't necessarily disagree, but this might require either an amendment or a favorable Supreme Court ruling.

If the issue is just so called assault weapons, then perhaps the issue is easier. They were outlawed before and perhaps could be so again.
 
Reheat said:
I don't think there is anyone arguing about that at all.

The NICS background check is suppose to verify everything that licensing would. However the NICS is flawed in both directions.

This is one of the reason one finds intense criticism of both the FBI and the County Sheriff's Department in not investigating or following protocol on this culprit. That is the stopgap that's suppose to prevent this type of massacre, but it's failed on these last two mass shooting events.

You will find that virtually all gun owners oppose anything similar to registration simply because that is one step away from confiscation. Contrary to ignorant assertions on this forum that that's a myth. It is indeed the end game of several prominent legislators. They won't say that straight up in public, but will privately...
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Goodness. Who are these bad folk and how do you know?
 
Checkmite said:
But the sheriff's department did hear his account, and yet they suspended him without pay and forced his retirement.

If it had been something as simple as "he mistakenly thought the gunshots were coming from outside, so he ran there first intending to confront the shooter", his getting kicked to the curb and shamed in a public press conference by the sheriff doesn't make sense. Chances are, the investigators did not find that story credible. Maybe because after nearly five minutes of standing around out there and not actually finding any shooters or victims he didn't take any other action.
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I wonder why they didn't just fire him if his response was so improper and against their normal procedure. We have no idea what Peterson said to the internal investigators. We don't know if he changed his story.

We will probably find out more in the future and maybe he will bring a lawsuit.
 
Outside of the fevered imaginations of gun rights advocates, I've not heard credible reports of any secret, unspoken agenda to confiscate all guns by any legislators. It astonishes that the slightest scintilla of a potential for complete confiscation (which probably 95-99% of Americans DON'T want) is sufficient to induce essentially an unreasoning, CT-level, impenetrable firewall of obstinance against common sense change.
 
Checkmite said:
But the sheriff's department did hear his account, and yet they suspended him without pay and forced his retirement.

If it had been something as simple as "he mistakenly thought the gunshots were coming from outside, so he ran there first intending to confront the shooter", his getting kicked to the curb and shamed in a public press conference by the sheriff doesn't make sense. Chances are, the investigators did not find that story credible. Maybe because after nearly five minutes of standing around out there and not actually finding any shooters or victims he didn't take any other action.
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And, today on NPR they stated he had claimed that - BUT even if he thought shooter was outside he did not move to find out where. Nothing clear and apparent makes him a decent officer.

bolding and related by me....
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Why are we upset the fantasy didn't play out like it does in the movies? :boggled:
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Because it was a gun free zone?

BTW, why aren't gun free zones not working like the fantasy being sold?

Citizens saving the public does happen.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...er-shoots-gunman-met-0420-20150419-story.html

Now if you would be so kind as to answer my question? Why are people so upset that the "good guys with guns" AKA the deputies did not respond properly if "good guys with guns" don't solve problems?
 
William Parcher said:
I didn't know that Peterson spoke to the press. Please give a link to that because I'm curious about what he said.
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You are correct, I was remembering union rep Jim Bell quoting (or paraphrasing) Peterson.

Why two weeks to make a statement? He probably got a lawyer right away and is following their legal guidance. Maybe he did want to inform the world sooner but his lawyer needed more time to get organized or whatever. There could be entirely rational reasons why it took 10-12 days.
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True. But it seems odd that Sheriff Israel would suspend him without pay and be so publicly condemning after interviewing Peterson if Peterson reported this new version of events at the time.

'Boss, I believed the shooter was outside. There were reports of a wounded out on the field. In the few minutes we had, that was our best info and we responded per protocol to outside shooter.'

Shouldn't take over a week to spit that out, and Israel shouldn't have been able to misunderstand that. Such a complete about-face from 'he was disgusted' with Peterson to 'he responded appropriately' sounds more like a PR spin than a big ol' misunderstanding.
 
Leftus said:
Because it was a gun free zone?

BTW, why aren't gun free zones not working like the fantasy being sold?

Citizens saving the public does happen.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...er-shoots-gunman-met-0420-20150419-story.html

Now if you would be so kind as to answer my question? Why are people so upset that the "good guys with guns" AKA the deputies did not respond properly if "good guys with guns" don't solve problems?
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In the case at hand the deputies both did not respond properly and did not solve any problems. For all the good they did they might as well have spent the entire incident at the local doughnut shop.
 
ponderingturtle said:
If your car had that potential to injure you while getting into it with a bit of being inattentive it would be huge lawsuits. In guns it is just laugh at the dumb ass.
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Really? It only takes a bit of "being inattentive" to kill yourself or others with a car. The driver is usually to blame, not the car.
 
New York Times said:
The office’s active shooter protocol says that on-scene deputies, without approval from a supervisor, “may” engage the gunman. That appears to give deputies discretion, but only to a point: They “may” choose not to go in if they know a door is armed with a large explosive device, for example, or if they know the only way into a building has a dangerous suspect immediately on the other side ready to shoot the deputy, Col. Jim Polan explained in written responses to questions.

Otherwise, deputies are expected to prioritize the lives of victims by trying to confront the gunman as quickly as possible.

Sheriff Israel said on the day of the massacre that it appeared the shooting had begun and then continued outside the building, and that three people had died outside the school. But on Monday, his office said, “The shooting occurred inside.”

Mr. Peterson initially received a call of “firecrackers — and not gunfire” near the freshman building, the statement from his lawyer said.

The deputy and a school security specialist, Kelvin Greenleaf, left the building they were in and ran a couple of hundred yards north, according to Mr. DiRuzzo’s account. Once there, Mr. Peterson “took up a tactical position” in the corridor between two other buildings and was the first to advise the sheriff’s office dispatch that he heard gunshots. Mr. Peterson also initiated a “code red” to put the entire school on lockdown.

Mr. Peterson told the first police officer to arrive, from the Coral Springs Police Department, that he believed the gunman to be outside, Mr. DiRuzzo said. The officer took up a position behind a tree with a rifle about 20 yards away from the deputy.

Mr. DiRuzzo also credited Mr. Peterson with “the presence of mind” to have administrators review surveillance camera footage to try to locate the gunman, and to provide his building keys and a diagram of the campus to specialized Coral Springs and Broward County units when they arrived...

Mr. DiRuzzo said Mr. Peterson plans to cooperate with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, which has been directed by Gov. Rick Scott to investigate the local police response to the shooting. Mr. Peterson believes the investigation will “clear his name” after being “maligned” by the sheriff...
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https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/26/us/sheriffs-deputy-florida-shooting.html
 
Reheat said:
Well, I'm not a hot head, I have nothing to prove to anyone. I have been shoot at and missed several times before, so I hope I could handle a critical confrontation correctly.
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But you ought to have to prove something to someone in order to carry around a gun. Not to us, of course, but to the authorities.

Cruz didn't have to prove anything other than having the money to pay. I suppose he also had to pass a criminal background check. They do those, don't they? Good thing he was an upstanding citizen. As far as the gun store knew, the only thing that made him different from you was his age.
 
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