School shooting Florida

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Checkmite said:
They were hiding in the classrooms. Video taken by multiple students during the incident confirms this.
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The students taking videos were hiding in the classrooms, sure. I don't think you can conclude from that all students were hiding in the classrooms. Likely, students running through hallways wouldn't be taking videos.
 
Checkmite said:
They were hiding in the classrooms. Video taken by multiple students during the incident confirms this.
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Did the cop know this (90-seconds after the shooting started).

Focusing on the actions of a policeman (who would have had to have been very brave and lucky to have an effect) is missing the point.

The issue is the fact that someone is able to perfectly legally get hold of semiautomatic rifles that means they are able to outgun anyone not tooled up for a massacre.
 
pgwenthold said:
Is there actually a law that schools have to have armed guards?
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Not yet but it is what Trump and the NRA are advocating for.

pgwenthold said:
I'm trying to understand to connect the dots between "the guard did not engage" and "the government failed to protect the students."

I think the armed guard is more of a school (schoolboard) decision, in response to the LACK of any "government" (in this case, legislature) actions to protect the students. Who's idea was it to use an armed guard? Is that the solution proposed by "government needs to do something" advocates?

I can accept the argument that the government has failed to protect the students, but it's not because they required an armed guard.
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If you are addressing this to me it's straw. I never said anything even close. I don't want armed guards at schools.

I'd like voters to vote out of office anyone beholden to NRA donations. The government (IOW we the voters) have not done enough to enact reasonable gun safety legislation.
 
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jimbob said:
Did the cop know this (90-seconds after the shooting started).

Focusing on the actions of a policeman (who would have had to have been very brave and lucky to have an effect) is missing the point.

The issue is the fact that someone is able to perfectly legally get hold of semiautomatic rifles that means they are able to outgun anyone not tooled up for a massacre.
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Bald assertion not in evidence.
 
It's amazing how desperate the gun lovers are to pin the blame on the police for this massacre. Utterly amazing. Can anyone think why that might be?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
If you quote me and then respond to that quote.... :rolleyes:
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I did respond to you, with a question.

And then I added a comment about another's argument (the one to which you responded)

If I thought it were your argument, I would have said "your argument" instead of "the argument"
 
MikeG said:
It's amazing how desperate the gun lovers are to pin the blame on the police for this massacre. Utterly amazing. Can anyone think why that might be?
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Its a coping strategy. Americans have lots of them. They need them.
 
jimbob said:
OK, they outgun any police officers who are armed with pistols.
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Doubling down on a bald assertion does not make that bald assertion true. The police with a pistol is not outgunned until he loses the fight. That does not mean he's dead. He has to be smarter than the individual with the rifle.

In this case, he didn't even try. It was not necessarily a suicidal mission as many have asserted in this thread. We'll never know will we, as he coward behind cover outside the building. He failed to do his job and there is no valid excuse other than cowardice.
 
MikeG said:
It's amazing how desperate the gun lovers are to pin the blame on the police for this massacre. Utterly amazing. Can anyone think why that might be?
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Who's desperate and pushing an agenda? The police were definitely (in part) responsible. From the FBI, to State mental health authorities, to the local Sheriff's Department missed signs that should have alerted then to the danger this jerk posed. I don't see anything desperate about stating facts. But, that doesn't fit with your "be like us" agenda.

I know you're pretty proud of the fact that the UK has essentially disarmed. How could anyone miss that fact with their noses being rubbed in it over and over again in not such a nice way.

Just remember there might come a day when you need us heathen Americans again just like you did a couple of times in the last Century. There is a down side to disarming the populace.
 
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Checkmite said:
IanS said:
So, tell us where everyone was in relation to one-another, what was their distance, who could see whom, how did anyone know the number of shooters etc. etc. etc .... what are you going to do, just charge around the open campus looking for one or more gunmen who are already actively killing anyone who comes near them?
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Yes? It's called "assessing the situation". Was the police officer waiting for God to gift this vital information about the shooter to him through a revelatory vision?
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Right, so you have no answer to any of those crucial questions! You ave no idea where the guard was in relation to the shooter, no idea how the guard would know where the shooter was or how many shooters there were, no idea of how the guard could find the shooter with getting himself instantly shot dead or else himself shooting the wrong people, etc. etc … pathetic. Just trying to find a scapegoat to blame as an excuse, the excuse taken from the lives murdered school kids, so that you can attempt to continue with your deadly hobby and to deflect away any discussion from the inescapable fact that the US needs to introduce much tougher restrictions on guns kept in private home ownership.
 
Reheat said:
Just remember there might come a day when you need us heathen Americans again just like you did a couple of times in the last Century. There is a down side to disarming the populace.
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Other countries may need your armed forces again, but I doubt there will be a need from other countries for your citizens to be armed .
 
Reheat said:
Who's desperate and pushing an agenda? The police were definitely (in part) responsible. From the FBI, to State mental health authorities, to the local Sheriff's Department missed signs that should have alerted then to the danger this jerk posed. I don't see anything desperate about stating facts. But, that doesn't fit with your "be like us" agenda.
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Yeh, but that goes on all the time. Why is this time so special?

I know you're pretty proud of the fact that the UK has essentially disarmed. How could anyone miss that fact with their noses being rubbed in it over and over again in not such a nice way.
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We were never particularly heavily armed in the place and when there were concerns, after WWI, the problem was nipped in the bud.

Just remember there might come a day when you need us heathen Americans again just like you did a couple of times in the last Century. There is a down side to disarming the populace.
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We did pay you to help us. The last repayment for WWI (which was $304 billion in total) was made in 2015. The last repayment for WWII was paid off earlier, in 2006 and it was a total of $38 billion.

The UK populace appropriately rearmed for WWII with the Home Guard. We then sensibly disarmed as the threat was over.
 
AJM8125 said:
No, he was perceived to be. Maybe it's a cultural thing - here where I live, you're not considered a good guy with a gun just because you happen to be paid to wear one.
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So the good guy with a gun mantra is just made up bollocks. There is no such thing.
 
AJM8125 said:
No, he was perceived to be. Maybe it's a cultural thing - here where I live, you're not considered a good guy with a gun just because you happen to be paid to wear one.
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How do you demonstrate to be a good guy with a gun without having to go through a school shooting?

Training? He had it.

So how do you distinguish the good guy with a gun from just a guy with a gun?
 
Nessie said:
Yeh, but that goes on all the time. Why is this time so special?



We were never particularly heavily armed in the place and when there were concerns, after WWI, the problem was nipped in the bud.



We did pay you to help us. The last repayment for WWI (which was $304 billion in total) was made in 2015. The last repayment for WWII was paid off earlier, in 2006 and it was a total of $38 billion.

The UK populace appropriately rearmed for WWII with the Home Guard. We then sensibly disarmed as the threat was over.
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I did not even imply that $$ might be involved. That is not necessarily the issue I was eluding to. Lives can not be repaid anyway.

The point you missed is that your firearms industry (already small is all but gone). Don't even think about justify air power and nukes as the solution to an aggressor. Nothing will ever replace a land army occupying ground....ever. You need small arms to equip a land army. Where do you propose go get those arms?
 
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