School shooting Florida

[Octavo]

On the upside the US has made sure that no one can get their hands on dangerous Kinder eggs and their hasn't been a mass haggis killing spree in centuries

Yes, but the US is special, remember? And us furriners just don't understand because reasons.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Just to point out that here in the UK that sport, work or leisure are all valid reasons for obtaining a firearms licence.

Of course what type of gun you can get hold of is restricted heavily and most of the UKs ~2million registered guns are rifles or shotguns. In a population of
~65million.

Apart from certain exempt people in Northern Ireland 'Self Defence' is never a valid reason to own a gun in the UK.

 

[MikeG]

And of course pistols (handguns) aren't allowed at all, to anyone other than the police and military.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Just to point out that here in the UK that sport, work or leisure are all valid reasons for obtaining a firearms licence.

Of course what type of gun you can get hold of is restricted heavily and most of the UKs ~2million registered guns are rifles or shotguns. In a population of
~65million.

I've lost track of the number of times I've pointed out (on various platforms, not so much here where people tend to be better informed generally) that guns aren't actually banned in Britain that there are actually millions of legal guns in private hands and used regularly. It sometimes amazes me how many British people even don't realise this, I consider it a credit to the system we have and the culture of those in our communities who enjoy recreational shooting.

 

[MikeG]

I predict it will also herald huge fences, armed guards at gates, and metal detectors at the entrance of all schools, helping to produce a nice warm welcoming atmosphere conducive to learning and the passing on of American values.

They'll be quite difficult to distinguish from prisons, visually and philosophically.

 

[Andy_Ross]

And of course pistols (handguns) aren't allowed at all, to anyone other than the police and military.

And certain exempt people in Northern Ireland

 

[Andy_Ross]

I've lost track of the number of times I've pointed out (on various platforms, not so much here where people tend to be better informed generally) that guns aren't actually banned in Britain that there are actually millions of legal guns in private hands and used regularly. It sometimes amazes me how many British people even don't realise this, I consider it a credit to the system we have and the culture of those in our communities who enjoy recreational shooting.

Indeed. I was an avid shooter for a while. I used to have a semi auto 22, a Lee Enfield Mk4 a 22 target rifle and several air rifles over the years.
I used to target shoot and go after rabbits and wood pigeon. Guisborough Estates, Zetland Estates and Skelton Castle Estate all issue permits to shoot small stuff and farmers are quite happy to let you go after rabbit, crow and pigeon with permission of course.
I tried clay shooting for a while but never got in to it.

 

[Tolls]

Can you imagine a country that would allow teachers to carry auto weapons to use on their students?

It may seem like humour but there are those that advocate arming the teachers.

Funny you should say that, but the NRA representative interviewed on the Beeb was pushing just this idea. Because an armed teacher would have really helped in this situation.

 

[Cheetah]

Am I right in thinking the USA has (say since 1900) been slightly more likely to have mass shootings than most of the rest of the world and that this is probably due to the availability of guns?
With freer access to news and information this higher trend entered the cultural consciousness and started feeding off itself and the freer and faster information got, the bigger the bites, the more it grew. There are obviously multiple factors affecting the specific number of incidences, but is this the general idea?
Proper gun laws will obviously help, but it won't get the idea out of the cultural consciousness and the USA stats down to the world average.
Even with similar legislation, due to the gun culture, the USA will probably always have many more guns than other comparable countries and therefore more incidences of gun violence. You would probably need excessively strict legislation to get the per capita figures down to 30 from 100, much more so than other countries currently at around 30.

You have to make the general population happier, so they don't consider these things.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Cheaper and more freely available semi auto rifles have added to the problem as well. It's far easier to kill a lot of people when you have a semi auto with a 30 round mag than it is with a bolt action rifle or pistol.

 

[Cheetah]

The USA does not only have more people shooting other people in general, they are also much more effective at it, since they have "better" guns.

That's just great...

 

[Wolrab]

I had a .22 semiauto rifle from Sears back in the late '70s. IIRC it held 20 shorts or 17 longs. If I had it, it wasn't expensive. It would easily kill in a classroom sized area with a head shot. Fired pretty damned fast and accurate. Never got around to killing anyone. Hell, I was even well below the poverty level, income disparity was huge, and I was bullied at times.

 

[Upchurch]

Other who are willing to use vehicles, bombs and fire to kill are evidence that guns are not needed. It is the willingness to commit evil deeds and make others suffer that is the primary cause in my opinion.

How often do people use vehicles, bombs, and fire to kill kids in schools compared to guns, I wonder?


Regardless, what do you think the solution is?

 

[Ranb]

I've previously pointed you to the Australian legislation where, yes, sport and hunting are both valid reasons to own a gun.

Yes I know. I was responding to a person who said he/she was Canadian; I had not seen a one of them describe gun owners in general as weird.

 

[Ranb]

.... This guy didn't build special "high capacity mags" or other mods to make a normally low-powered weapon more lethal; the thing stock off the shelf is mass-murder in a box.

Does anyone here believe that lack of a specific type of rapid fire gun is going to keep a killer like this one away from schools where he can kill with near impunity? I don't; it may inhibit some though

 

[Dave Rogers]

Does anyone here believe that lack of a specific type of rapid fire gun is going to keep a killer like this one away from schools where he can kill with near impunity?

If the converse is true, then killers like this would be carrying out mass killings using other types of weapons in other countries. What statistics are there for school massacres carried out with single shot pistols, IEDs, knives or vehicular assault, for example, in nations other than the USA, and how do their numbers compare with those due to rapid fire guns in the USA? Would restricting the availability of specific types of weapon therefore reduce the incidence or the death rate significantly?

Dave

 

[BobTheCoward]

If the converse is true, then killers like this would be carrying out mass killings using other types of weapons in other countries. What statistics are there for school massacres carried out with single shot pistols, IEDs, knives or vehicular assault, for example, in nations other than the USA, and how do their numbers compare with those due to rapid fire guns in the USA? Would restricting the availability of specific types of weapon therefore reduce the incidence or the death rate significantly?

Dave

Gun ownership is so obviously the primary driver that focusing on other causes (lumped together as culture) is is laughable.

 

[William Parcher]

I predict it will also herald huge fences, armed guards at gates, and metal detectors at the entrance of all schools, helping to produce a nice warm welcoming atmosphere conducive to learning and the passing on of American values.

There already are American schools with armed guards and metal detectors but I'm not aware of any prison-style fences. These are generally in high crime areas. The problem is not so much about spree shooters but rather that students are gang members (organized crime syndicates) and specifically target rival gang members. The weapons are guns, knives and machetes. All can be prevented with the metal detectors at entranceways.

 

[Meadmaker]

Does anyone here believe that lack of a specific type of rapid fire gun is going to keep a killer like this one away from schools where he can kill with near impunity? I don't; it may inhibit some though

Yes.

Well, a "specific type of gun" has to be actually a wide range of rapid fire guns, and there would still be some people who find other ways to work out how to do mass killings, but yes. I think restrictions on guns would cut down the number of killings.

From what we know of this shooter in particular, I think this shooting is one of the ones most likely to be prevented.

 

[Vixen]

Does anyone here believe that lack of a specific type of rapid fire gun is going to keep a killer like this one away from schools where he can kill with near impunity? I don't; it may inhibit some though

The AK-15 assault rifle is responsible for so many atrocities. Time to take it off the shelves. Nobody needs an assault rifle and its ridiculous Rambo-style connotations that appeal to lunatics and extremists.