School shooting Florida

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ponderingturtle said:
Does the school have an open or closed campus and what kind of guards did it have at all non locked entrances? Lots of schools do let the students outside and highschools are often able to freely decide where they want to eat lunch for example.
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I guess I thought that wasn't done anymore. I was under the mistaken impression closed campuses for high schools were pretty much universal now.
 
isissxn, I read that he got inside by just walking in. The article said that door guard guys were doing something else at that moment - I can't remember now... it was something like they were locking other doors or were unlocking other doors. Anyway, it was described as if it were a moment of luck for Cruz that a guard wasn't there and he walked in. That's maybe not confirmed though.

Student spoke to Cruz and said she knew he was the shooter? Uh, I'll go with an unconfirmed conversation there.

This school has a huge number of students and there would have been some who had never ever seen Cruz before (particularly freshmen). This would have been very high stress and chaos for students. I would have expected most students to believe that the shooter is still armed and active and maybe hiding. Nobody is really expecting the shooter to be unarmed and running away terrified of the shooter. The shooter is expected to be holding a gun with nobody near him - everyone is running away from a guy who is holding a gun. Cruz wasn't that person.
 
William Parcher said:
Broward County Sheriff says from now onwards all deputies at schools will be carrying rifles and they may even be AR-15s. Previously they would have been carrying pistols.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article201442569.html
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MikeG said:
How many kids were already dead before the first policeman arrived at the school?
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William Parcher said:
Probably most. It's reported that the first officer(s) arriving at the scene did hear the final volley of gunshots. But they were too far away to do anything meaningful. The school campus is about 45 acres.
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So the suggestion that police be given automatic weapons would have made precisely what difference in this circumstance?
 
BobTheCoward said:
Because they are subjects of a monarch and recognize themselves inferior to the peerage around them. As the slavemaster is responsible for the integrity of his property, the responsibility to provide defense for a person belongs to the crown along with that person's dignity.
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The US is better informed about slavery than we are here in the U.K., so perhaps I have to concede your authority on that point. But if the Crown had sequestered the dignity of every person in the Uk, the same can hardly be said of the President of the USA. He shows no sign of having received a generous supply of that quality.

However, please be assured that British citizens have at least as much dignity left in their possession as US citizens have.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
The school is huge: 3000 students or so - how many would really know him, and of those, how many were not in class at the time?
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Yeah, that makes sense in general terms. What's been blowing my mind is the girl who spoke to him. I suppose she was just too upset to really think straight at the time. I find myself in that mindset a lot, and over considerably less intense situations. I'd be absolute rubbish in a shooting event. I'd unravel into total hysterics.

I do think all high school campuses should be closed. I don't see many good reasons they shouldn't be, and here is an excellent one why they should. I'd truly assumed they already were. Isn't it considered a massive liability to have kids wandering away at lunch time to roam around the city? If something happened to them during that time, could the school be held responsible?
 
Craig B said:
The US is better informed about slavery than we are here in the U.K., so perhaps I have to concede your authority on that point. But if the Crown had sequestered the dignity of every person in the Uk, the same can hardly be said of the President of the USA. He shows no sign of having received a generous supply of that quality.

However, please be assured that British citizens have at least as much dignity left in their possession as US citizens have.
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Trump is just some guy. Some like him, some don't. He doesn't have any official role in my life.
 
isissxn said:
Yeah, that makes sense in general terms. What's been blowing my mind is the girl who spoke to him. I suppose she was just too upset to really think straight at the time. I find myself in that mindset a lot, and over considerably less intense situations. I'd be absolute rubbish in a shooting event. I'd unravel into total hysterics.

I do think all high school campuses should be closed. I don't see many good reasons they shouldn't be, and here is an excellent one why they should. I'd truly assumed they already were. Isn't it considered a massive liability to have kids wandering away at lunch time to roam around the city? If something happened to them during that time, could the school be held responsible?
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They actually opened the campus for the school I graduated from like 2 or 3 years later. Something to do with it being built almost beyond city limits and at that time there was nothing but residential around. Had to go about 3 miles for the nearest place to eat. I believe all high schools are open campus. Also, a lot of kids either get the last period off as a senior (ostensibly for a job), or travel to a magnet school for AP classes.
 
MikeG said:
So the suggestion that police be given automatic weapons would have made precisely what difference in this circumstance?
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I don't believe that the Sheriff is going to issue automatic rifles. I believe that they will be semi-automatic.
 
William Parcher said:
isissxn, I read that he got inside by just walking in. The article said that door guard guys were doing something else at that moment - I can't remember now... it was something like they were locking other doors or were unlocking other doors. Anyway, it was described as if it were a moment of luck for Cruz that a guard wasn't there and he walked in. That's maybe not confirmed though.

Student spoke to Cruz and said she knew he was the shooter? Uh, I'll go with an unconfirmed conversation there.

This school has a huge number of students and there would have been some who had never ever seen Cruz before (particularly freshmen). This would have been very high stress and chaos for students. I would have expected most students to believe that the shooter is still armed and active and maybe hiding. Nobody is really expecting the shooter to be unarmed and running away terrified of the shooter. The shooter is expected to be holding a gun with nobody near him - everyone is running away from a guy who is holding a gun. Cruz wasn't that person.
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WP,

I will try to find the source where I read that in my browser history. I can't do it right now because I have a lot of work to do, and I really need to go do it. But I will try to dig it up today so we can examine its validity.

What I recall is, a girl who had known Cruz the previous year saw him walking out near her as students were evacuating. At that time, she made a comment akin to, "I always thought it would be you who did something like this." Evidently, conspiracy theorists seized upon this story to claim that there was a second shooter/Cruz was patsy/it was all fake/whatever. That's what I remember.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Murder rate is down since the NRA went gun nut.
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That's absolutely true. It has gone down all over the world, including here in Britain. What difference do you think the NRA makes to the British murder rate? In light of your answer to that, do you accept that you have connected two things which are not cause and effect?

Have you read about some of the postulated causes of this world-wide phenomenon, including the removal of lead from petrol? Maybe it's time you did. BBC. IBT. Rational Wiki.
 
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William Parcher said:
I don't believe that the Sheriff is going to issue automatic rifles. I believe that they will be semi-automatic.
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Oh FFS.......Typical ******** IFS argument for argument's sake over irrelevant trivia.

OK, then, what difference would a semi-automatic have made in the hands of police who weren't on the scene?
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
Close the schools, use remote teaching: Virtual Reality Headsets for ALL!
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While that would I guess be safest, it's a pretty far cry from what I'm advocating. If I had a kid going to high school, I would want to know that I could expect them to stay at school for the duration of school hours. I would also want to know that random people couldn't just roll into the building.

But it sounds like Cruz just got "lucky" in this case.
 
MikeG said:
That's absolutely true. It has gone down all over the world, including here in Britain. What difference do you think the NRA makes to the British murder rate? In light of your answer to that, do you accept that you have connected two things which are not cause and effect?

Have you read about some of the postulated causes of this world-wide phenomenon, including the removal of lead from petrol? Maybe it's time you did.
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I'm not saying they are related. I have said multiple times in this thread that the primary cause of the high murder rates I the US relative to Europe is gun ownership.
 
BobTheCoward said:
I'm not saying they are related. I have said multiple times in this thread that the primary cause of the high murder rates I the US relative to Europe is gun ownership.
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So explain why you said that murder rates have been going down since the NRA went gun-loopy (in terms).
 
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