School shooting Florida

[crescent]

If Captain Howdy's suggestion is that we regulate all states the way California is currently regulated, I would be all for that. What Howdy seems to miss is that most states currently have far less regulation than CA. Shifting the entire nation to that standard would be a huge change.

The only problem with implementing strict regulations like this is that this is the way we do it here in California already.

California has pretty good regulation, that's true

Other states have more or less the same sort of regulations.

No, most don't. Most have far, far less regulation than CA.

This is why it's important for people to know what they're talking about.

If you think all or most states are regulated much like CA, then this statement is just the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[stresbal]

I think that it's mental illness or insanity. These mass and spree killers seem to be insane people. I want to say they are "loose" like a dangerous animal outside of a cage and living amongst normal people.


Guns have always been common and easy to get in America. Always. But something has changed here in my lifetime. It wasn't like this before. We have so many shootings now and we have these mass shootings and school shootings with some regularity. It wasn't like this before.

It's as if people want to kill and do kill with much greater prevalence here now. There is too much of this mental sickness in America. I don't like what I have seen happen to my country. It seems to have become infested with killers and I don't know how or why it happened.

I think you shouldn't call mentally ill people 'insane'. Yes, this guy did a terrible thing, but you should start looking at the causes and not say straight up he is insane. Maybe he wasn't loved by anyone. What I'm trying to say is that the problem lies deeper than just 'insane people'. We should start fixing those problems.

I think that second part of the problem is that guns are allowed. I live in The Netherlands and we are not allowed to carry and own guns. We haven't had any big shooting like this since the Second World War. So that's straight up evidence that making guns forbidden will fix the problem to a certain extent.

Btw. I totally agree that that guy was insane but that won't fix anything. You need to look at the reasons he did it.

 

[William Parcher]

Prosecutors will seek death penalty in Parkland school massacre

Prosecutors will seek to put Nikolas Cruz to death for carrying out last month's massacre at a Parkland, Florida, high school, they announced in court filings Tuesday.

A Broward County grand jury last week indicted the 19-year-old gunman on 17 counts of premeditated murder in the first degree and 17 counts of attempted murder in the first degree.

In its filing, the prosecution said that, among the aggravating factors spurring its decision, were that Cruz knowingly created a risk of death for many people, his crime was aimed at hindering "any government function or the enforcement of laws" and that the shooting was "especially heinous, atrocious or cruel."

Another factor: "The capital felony was a homicide and was committed in a cold, calculated and premeditated manner without any pretense of moral or legal justification."...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/13/us/nikolas-cruz-parkland-massacre-death-penalty/index.html

 

[Andy_Ross]

Pro AR-15 people are prone to ssaying that they aren't 'military weapons' because they are only semi-auto'.

There are lots of semi auto weapons used by the military. Up until the SA-80 was introduced the British Army main Battle Rifle was Semi-Auto and it was seen as a good thing that the average squaddie couldn't go using all his ammo in pointless full auto shooting.

 

[smartcooky]

Pro AR-15 people are prone to ssaying that they aren't 'military weapons' because they are only semi-auto'.

There are lots of semi auto weapons used by the military. Up until the SA-80 was introduced the British Army main Battle Rifle was Semi-Auto and it was seen as a good thing that the average squaddie couldn't go using all his ammo in pointless full auto shooting.

Prior to the SA-80, the British Armed forces had the L1A1, which was a British version of the Belgian FN-FAL, a gas operated SLR.

[imgw=500]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/SLRL1A1.jpg/1920px-SLRL1A1.jpg[/imgw]


In its factory form, the L1A1 could be fired on fully automatic, however AFAIK, all the versions issued to the Army and RAF had the necessary parts for full-auto removed, so it was effectively a semi-automatic assault rifle

 

[quadraginta]

Prior to the SA-80, the British Armed forces had the L1A1, which was a British version of the Belgian FN-FAL, a gas operated SLR.

[imgw=500]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/SLRL1A1.jpg/1920px-SLRL1A1.jpg[/imgw]


In its factory form, the L1A1 could be fired on fully automatic, however AFAIK, all the versions issued to the Army and RAF had the necessary parts for full-auto removed, so it was effectively a semi-automatic assault rifle

Which (at least until recently, it would seem) would be a contradiction in terms according to the NRA and its fans.

CaptainHowdy isn't up to date on the latest memo.

 

[William Parcher]

There was a little flicker of hope that this mass shooting would make a difference. It has already gone out.

There is still the opportunity for our FBI to step up their game. They should have intervened to stop Cruz somehow. They are admitting to doing wrong here with this incident. And not just the FBI as there is responsibility with local authorities and social services and therapists.

This shooting may change things in those areas.

 

[jimbob]

Pro AR-15 people are prone to ssaying that they aren't 'military weapons' because they are only semi-auto'.

There are lots of semi auto weapons used by the military. Up until the SA-80 was introduced the British Army main Battle Rifle was Semi-Auto and it was seen as a good thing that the average squaddie couldn't go using all his ammo in pointless full auto shooting.

Prior to the SA-80, the British Armed forces had the L1A1, which was a British version of the Belgian FN-FAL, a gas operated SLR.

[imgw=500]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/SLRL1A1.jpg/1920px-SLRL1A1.jpg[/imgw]


In its factory form, the L1A1 could be fired on fully automatic, however AFAIK, all the versions issued to the Army and RAF had the necessary parts for full-auto removed, so it was effectively a semi-automatic assault rifle

And my (limited) understanding is that British Army* doctrine is still that semi-automatic, aimed fire is what is most useful for most battle situations.



ETA: *And most other Western militaries

 

[Andy_Ross]

Prior to the SA-80, the British Armed forces had the L1A1, which was a British version of the Belgian FN-FAL, a gas operated SLR.

[imgw=500]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/SLRL1A1.jpg/1920px-SLRL1A1.jpg[/imgw]


In its factory form, the L1A1 could be fired on fully automatic, however AFAIK, all the versions issued to the Army and RAF had the necessary parts for full-auto removed, so it was effectively a semi-automatic assault rifle

Indeed, we had them in the ships armoury right through my service, an epic weapon.
There are stories that in the Falklands Argentinian SLRs were acquired by British troops because of their full auto.

 

[Andy_Ross]

And my (limited) understanding is that British Army* doctrine is still that semi-automatic, aimed fire is what is most useful for most battle situations.



ETA: *And most other Western militaries

Yes it is, the SA80 has a full auto capability but standard training and doctrine is to use semi auto aimed fire.
Cadet versions of the SA80 are semi auto only.

 

[bruto]

If Captain Howdy's suggestion is that we regulate all states the way California is currently regulated, I would be all for that. What Howdy seems to miss is that most states currently have far less regulation than CA. Shifting the entire nation to that standard would be a huge change.



California has pretty good regulation, that's true


No, most don't. Most have far, far less regulation than CA.


If you think all or most states are regulated much like CA, then this statement is just the pot calling the kettle black.

Indeed, if lack of precise information and terminology is, as some here have so outspokenly suggested, a disqualification for offering opinions, I, as a resident of Vermont, might modestly suggest that opinions about State gun laws might be considered to lie in that forbidden zone.

 

[William Parcher]

I think you shouldn't call mentally ill people 'insane'. Yes, this guy did a terrible thing, but you should start looking at the causes and not say straight up he is insane. Maybe he wasn't loved by anyone. What I'm trying to say is that the problem lies deeper than just 'insane people'. We should start fixing those problems.

I think that second part of the problem is that guns are allowed. I live in The Netherlands and we are not allowed to carry and own guns. We haven't had any big shooting like this since the Second World War. So that's straight up evidence that making guns forbidden will fix the problem to a certain extent.

Btw. I totally agree that that guy was insane but that won't fix anything. You need to look at the reasons he did it.

Cruz was diagnosed with autism early in his life. He has also been diagnosed with depression, anger issues and learning disabilities. He had told his therapist that he has fantasies of blood and violence.

He seemed to do nothing about concealing his mass shooting nor make any gestures towards a police shootout or suicide. It's like he just wanted to shoot a lot of people and then go to prison forever. Like he didn't care anything about anything other than fulfilling his life's goal of a mass killing.

His attorneys may go for an insanity defense with his autism being featured as something that prevents him from experiencing normal empathy or the fear of grave consequences.

 

[deadrose]

Ugh, if they do that, it's going to make life twice as miserable for all the autistic people who aren't homicidal, which is the vast majority. It'll be like all the goth kids who got beaten up after Columbine when the media labeled Harris & Klebold as goths.

And empathy is not something autistic people don't have, it's just harder for them to learn it. This confuses some people, since it used to be listed as a defining characteristic. Even my daughter had her diagnosis changed to pervasive developmental disability by one doctor, because she showed empathy. I wanted to shake him and explain just how hard we'd worked on that concept throughout her childhood.

I'd be more inclined to look at a diagnosis of sociopathy, but of course I have no access to his records, it's just what I've observed.

 

[Dr.Sid]

I certainly think he could be helped, and that he communicated his poor state quite clearly. This was call for attention, IMHO not different from demonstrative suicide.
It doesn't change much. Main problem is he shouldn't have had access to guns, at the very least. If for nothing, suicide was could also be high risk for him.
But I think he's not one in a million, like for example Breivik. That man is indeed wired differently. But not this one. There might be thousands like him. Also this group is even more susceptible to copycatting.

 

[Checkmite]

Teacher's gun goes off at California school; three students injured

SEASIDE, Calif. —
A teacher who also serves as a reserve police officer accidentally fired a gun inside a Seaside High School classroom Tuesday, police said, and three students were injured.

Dennis Alexander was teaching a course about gun safety for his Administration of Justice class when his gun went off at 1:20 p.m.

Alexander was pointing his gun at the ceiling when it fired. Pieces of the ceiling fell to the ground.

A news release from the Seaside Police Department said no one suffered "serious injuries." One 17-year-old boy suffered moderate injuries when fragments from the bullet ricocheted off the ceiling and lodged into his neck, the student's father, Fermin Gonzales, told KSBW.

The teacher had just told the class that he wanted to make sure his gun wasn't loaded, when the gun fired, according to Gonzales.

"It's the craziest thing. It could have been very bad," Gonzales said.

The teacher was about to use the gun for a demonstration about how to disarm someone, according to Gonzales.

Everyone in the classroom was stunned, and the teacher, who is a reserve officer for the Sand City Police Department, apologized.

But no one at the school checked to make sure that all of the students were uninjured, Gonzales said. The school day resumed as normal, and Seaside Police Department officers launched an investigation.

The 17-year-old boy's parents were shocked when he returned home with blood on his shirt and bullet fragments in his neck. The student's parents rushed him to a hospital for X-rays.

"He's shaken up, but he's going to be OK," Gonzales told KSBW. "I'm just pretty upset that no one told us anything and we had to call the police ourselves to report it."

 

[smartcooky]

Indeed, we had them in the ships armoury right through my service, an epic weapon.

Oh yes. I was trained on the FN-FAL (wooden stock & grip). It was a very reliable weapon... jams and hard-extractions were a rarity. The only trouble I had was because I shoot left handed; manually cocking after each mag change meant pulling the cocking handle with my support hand directly back toward my nose rather than using the pistol hand toward the right ear the way right hander's did. It also meant the ejected casings flew across my field of vision... quite distracting during rapid fire.

I fired a few weapons in my time in the service. I was fortunate enough (if that is right word) to have still been in when the FN was replaced with the piece of crap known as the Steyr AUG.

In any case, it is this style of weapon that most people refer to as an "Assault Rifle... semi automatic, capable of firing rounds as rapidly as the shooter pulls the trigger. This sort of weapon ought to be banned from sale and illegal to own. (it is both here in NZ, and in Australia.... we don't have school shootings).

 

[Civet]

There was a little flicker of hope that this mass shooting would make a difference. It has already gone out.

I was never quite so optimistic, but I do think that we could see more states adopting red flag laws/GVROs. Not all of them, though. That's the most I could see coming out of this.

 

[Vixen]

Cruz was diagnosed with autism early in his life. He has also been diagnosed with depression, anger issues and learning disabilities. He had told his therapist that he has fantasies of blood and violence.

He seemed to do nothing about concealing his mass shooting nor make any gestures towards a police shootout or suicide. It's like he just wanted to shoot a lot of people and then go to prison forever. Like he didn't care anything about anything other than fulfilling his life's goal of a mass killing.

His attorneys may go for an insanity defense with his autism being featured as something that prevents him from experiencing normal empathy or the fear of grave consequences.

Autism is not an absolute condition. It is on a scale that ranges from mild aspergers to severe autism. It certainly is not an excuse or explanation for mass murder.

 

[Hungry81]

Teacher's gun goes off at California school; three students injured

The teacher just needed more guns. One gun loaded for defense, one gun unloaded for demonstration and another loaded gun incase someone takes one of the others.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

If Captain Howdy's suggestion is that we regulate all states the way California is currently regulated, I would be all for that. What Howdy seems to miss is that most states currently have far less regulation than CA. Shifting the entire nation to that standard would be a huge change.



California has pretty good regulation, that's true


No, most don't. Most have far, far less regulation than CA.


If you think all or most states are regulated much like CA, then this statement is just the pot calling the kettle black.

I know that every state has different regulations. But there isn't anywhere in the state where all you have to do is pass an instant background check and walk out of the store with an "assault" rifle, as the NYT seems to suggest.

More examples of the anti-gun nutters not knowing what they're talking about: Last night I heard on the radio that there's going to be a big anti-gun rally in downtown Los Angeles where one of the organizers said they were going to be protesting against "assault rifles."

And earlier today, professional crisis-actor David Hogg tweeted:

"What if we taxed guns, made a gun registration process for them and had licensing for owners just like cars? We could use that money to help harden soft targets like schools and many other places with bulletproof windows and doors. #guntax for #GunSenseNow"

Guns are already taxed. Guns are already registered. If you want to use a gun to kill an animal, you already need a license. Sure. Let's make the process of using a gun at least as onerous as we do cars so every sixteen year old can use one!

And retrofitting schools with bulletproof windows and doors? How many students at Parkland would still be alive if the school had bulletproof windows and doors? How many victims of Las Vegas would bulletproof windows and doors saved?

The idea is to get guns off the streets. Make being a citizen a prerequisite to gun ownership. Immediately, thirteen million people in this country wouldn't be able to possess a gun. Extend that rule to only native-born citizens to make naturalized citizens ineligible so something like 20 million or so more people couldn't own a gun. Make housing projects gun-free zones. Require anybody on public assistance to give up their guns. There are hundreds of ways of making our cities safer that will work better than demanding laws that have already been passed or banning guns that are already banned.