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Save your Dixie cups, the South shall rise again!

catsmate1 said:
Probably not. The might have won in the 1860s but after that the gap in terms of population and industrial capacity was widening pretty much constantly. The earlier the Civil War the better things would go for the South. Perhaps if the New England states had seceded in the War of 1812 leaving the South the dominant block in the USA.

Maybe the US could have fallen apart given a worse Great Depression and severe incompetence at Federal level leading to a multi-polar North America with a 'New Confederacy' amongst the successor states (I used this in the eWhoniverse) but I think it pretty doubtful.
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Leaving Canada the dominant nation state in North America.

Or not. A large part of the drive to Confederation up here was the ACW and the desire to set up a unified defence force should the US try to do something with that large military force after their bout of unpleasantness.

You may have ended up with a Maritime Confederation of the New Englanders, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island (I'm presuming the Newfoundlanders will still want to go it alone), Canada (the provinces of Ontario and Quebec), Rupert's Land (the lands draining into Hudson's Bay and the Arctic Ocean, which was the property of the Hudson's Bay Company until 1870, and British Columbia forming a number of independentish Dominions of the British Crown.
 
Of course the Civil War did not completly end on April 9th,1865.The Corpse was to jerk around for another couple of months.There were no major military actions, but some small battles .
The last land action of the war happened in early May, at Palmetto Ranch in Texas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Palmito_Ranch


ANd at sea,where word of the Surrender took a long time to reach ships, the C.S.S Shenandoah destoryed most of the Pacific American Whaling Fleet after Lee's surrender..a blow from which the US Whaling industry never recovered. The absolute final act of the war took place in August when the Captian of the Shenandoah took her into Liverpool, England, dimissed his crew, and turned the ship over to the British Government.
 
Border Reiver said:
Leaving Canada the dominant nation state in North America.

Or not. A large part of the drive to Confederation up here was the ACW and the desire to set up a unified defence force should the US try to do something with that large military force after their bout of unpleasantness.

You may have ended up with a Maritime Confederation of the New Englanders, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island (I'm presuming the Newfoundlanders will still want to go it alone), Canada (the provinces of Ontario and Quebec), Rupert's Land (the lands draining into Hudson's Bay and the Arctic Ocean, which was the property of the Hudson's Bay Company until 1870, and British Columbia forming a number of independentish Dominions of the British Crown.
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[OT] In my eWhoniverse alt-hist after the USA fragmented in the 1930s (not a nice time, Big Slump, Okie flu, far worse dustbowl and more) the Canada/New England/California axis basically dominated North America for decades after the Eastern War and the suppression of the New Confederacy.
Canada picked up a few bits of the USA (like Alaska) but lost Quebec.
[/OT]
 
Trebuchet said:
The South, in 1861, had about as much chance of winning as Japan in 1941. Nil. It just took a while for the inevitable to take effect. Given the heavily conservative bias of the military today, and the Southern bias of basing, that might not be true today. Except it was also that way in 1861. Now as then, the South has the generals, the North has the money.
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Uh, the main reason so many US military installtations are in the south is simple:Weather.The milder climate in the south allows year round training and maneuvers.
 
IMO one of the questions settled by the Civil War was slavery, and in particular slavery in new states and territories. AFAIK, during the Civil War, all of the South was in play (including chunks of the South West), so it was a 50/50 (ish) proposition

A 1930's or 1950's uprising would have set the South East against the rest of the U.S. so it would have been more a 75/25 (ish) proposition.

Another significant difference during the Civil War was the large number of slaves who weren't in a position to influence decisions. In hte 20th century their descendants, however poor and disenfranchised, would have been in a much better position to resist the movement behind the South rising.

All of the above from a position of ignorance.
 
Giordano said:
My understanding is that a lot of the South is actually sinking due to rising ocean levels. So for it to rise again it will need scuba gear.
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In Louisiana, much of the apparent sea level rise is actually due to subsidence resulting from oil extraction. This may be true along other parts of the Gulf Coast.
 
This painting, BTW is recent, based on careful research,and is probably as accurate a picture of what the surrender in McLean's parlor actually look liked as we are likely to get.
 
One of my favorite ironies:
McLean, who owned the house the surrender took place in, originally owned a house in Manasses, and after he and his family had to hide in the cellar during First Mannases, the first major battle of the Civil War,he swore to move to someplace so remote that the war could never reach there. He chose Appomatox Court House...........and had to watch his house get basically ripped apart after the surrender by souvenir hunters. He was compensated for it, but still it;s a nice little irony.
 
That's something I wondered about for a long time -- when would-be Confederates say "The South will rise again!", or put it on bumper stickers, what exactly do they imagine is going to happen? What does "The South will rise again" actually mean?
 
Mark6 said:
That's something I wondered about for a long time -- when would-be Confederates say "The South will rise again!", or put it on bumper stickers, what exactly do they imagine is going to happen? What does "The South will rise again" actually mean?
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It's means they believe that they can get another civil war going to finally settle the matter and regain their freedom from the oppressive Yankee government.

They're also WWE fans, which explains the stupidity.
 
dudalb said:
ANd at sea,where word of the Surrender took a long time to reach ships, the C.S.S Shenandoah destoryed most of the Pacific American Whaling Fleet after Lee's surrender..a blow from which the US Whaling industry never recovered.
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Huh. Well, at least the Confederacy accomplished something that was positive.

dudalb said:
Uh, the main reason so many US military installtations are in the south is simple:Weather.The milder climate in the south allows year round training and maneuvers.
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Mild? Have you ever been to Columbus, GA in the middle of July? :p
 
Mark6 said:
That's something I wondered about for a long time -- when would-be Confederates say "The South will rise again!", or put it on bumper stickers, what exactly do they imagine is going to happen? What does "The South will rise again" actually mean?
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It's a joke about erections.
 
Chances the South would "Rise Again" after Reconstruction: Zero. It never happened.

Although, it could happen in the future. I know it' all political bluster ********, but Teas periodically talks about secession. Until they realize just how much they get back from the federal government to support things like their roads and schools.... lol.
 
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