Satanic Temple counters anti-abortion regulations

[Thermal]

In the US, it is the standard for determining what is or is not a religion.

It's the government's definition. That matters in terms of government-y stuff. They call corporations people, too. That doesn't make it real to an actual people.

I suppose that to make a convincing argument that it is not a religion, you need to define what a religion is and how it doesn't fit that definition.

FWIW, the woman who spent 3 years with them filming a documentary initially believed it wasn't a religion, but became convinced that it was.

Interesting link, thanks. I'd opine that people can embrace non-religious ideas or whatever with religious fervor, like a rabid football fan, or over the top atheist. Pinning it down gets tricky. Maybe how often you celebrate with a straight face rather than a smirk might be a tip.

 

[acbytesla]

I think the Miracle argument would have fallen flat as a couple employees willfully misdirecting mail without proper vetting and verification of the recipient. Which is a federal offense, of course.

The problem of course...if you are familiar with the entire movie, is this was a political move by the judge and an expedience move by the Postal Service. And since Santa Claus is in itself a culturally accepted fiction, who is going to challenge it?

I'm not sure the Feds can really nail it down either. They go broad to be inclusive, prob not thinking much about the clever gaming TST uses. The difference may well be in whether the deeply held beliefs are identical to conventional secular beliefs, with nothing substantial to distinguish them from the irreligious. Nature of reality and the universe and whatnot.

Yep. Nobody can. And trying to nail it down results in more existential problems

Agreed. TST's social/political objectives are solid, and if under the guise of Satan as satire, vaya con dios...or Diablo, maybe. What do you think of this scenario: the Temple wins. Their religious exemption is protected. What happens to the other religions? They just got a great precedent handed to them on a silver platter. Any potential young woman who is creeped out by something called the Satanic Temple is now much more at the mercy of religious influences, freshly precedented. Net win or loss, considering the influence of the Temple versus the influence of pro-lifers?

Love the "Vaya con Diablo" BTW. I say that all the time...especially to a friend of mine who is Catholic...It's like I'm crossing some verboten land by saying it. It bothers him a little. But for me, it is needling him about a silly superstition. It's also appropriate given the "Satanic" Temple.

This has to be the reason this organization uses the the "Satanic" name. I find it funny...but also a little too provocative for me. One thing to needle my buddy. It's amother to over do it with the religious whackadoodles.

 

[Thermal]

A legislature did create the statutory framework of requirements and standards for incorporating such an entity. They met those requirements and were approved.

What is there to object to here?

Your business is not just you. Any property in your sole (private) nme cannot be seized to settle damages in a suit involving your business conduct, for example. An exception to that does exist in that if you conduct your private and business life in a slipshod way then a good lawyer can "pierce the veil" and come after you. Then the state might investigate possible fraud/embezzling, etc.

Consider the differences between for instance sole propreitorships, LLC's, partnerships and the like. You'll find that comingling of funds is not considered embezzling in many cases. It depends on the structure. Piercing the corporate veil is aoften a cakewalk, even if not run slipshod. Who is defined as a principal, and who guarantees, etc

 

[catsmate]

This seems to be an interesting tactic, to counter the interference by some religious groups in medical decisions by the use of the same regulations that allow that interference. (They also campaign to have statues of Baphoment erected authorities have put up the 10 Commandments on state grounds, to highlight breach of church and state separation.)

By stating a ritual to be followed when having an abortion, IIUC, they can claim that any unnecessary requirements imposed by the state can be ignored as they would violate the freedom of expression of religion.



(Note, the Satanic Temple members do not believe in Satan or any other supernatural beings, they are, as I understand it, humanists using the protections afforded to religions by law to protect their own beliefs.)

I LOL'd. Well more of a chortle. Are the collecting donations for the court cases?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Interesting link, thanks. I'd opine that people can embrace non-religious ideas or whatever with religious fervor, like a rabid football fan, or over the top atheist. Pinning it down gets tricky. Maybe how often you celebrate with a straight face rather than a smirk might be a tip.

According to the filmmaker, there's plenty of celebration with a straight face - including people doing the rituals, for themselves, in private.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Consider the differences between for instance sole propreitorships, LLC's, partnerships and the like. You'll find that comingling of funds is not considered embezzling in many cases. It depends on the structure. Piercing the corporate veil is aoften a cakewalk, even if not run slipshod. Who is defined as a principal, and who guarantees, etc

Okay, I considered them.

When you want to connect that back into the stream of discussion, let me know.

 

[Orphia Nay]

As much as this speaks to the "OMG they owned those bastards" part of me, it's probably not going to do any good. What are they going to do when the court rules against the temple? Say that the religious bigots are hypocrites? They already know that and don't care.

Probably take it to the Supreme Court.

"There's unofficial list of 'real religions'" already is the precedent.

Remember the "Satanic Display at the State Capital Thread?" We got a whole lot of words as to why the Satanist doing it was obviously different. No arguments or reasons why mind you, but a whole lot of words about it.

That Satanic Temple / ACLU challenge got the Arkansas Ten Commandments monument removed from state grounds.

I LOL'd. Well more of a chortle. Are the collecting donations for the court cases?

Yes.

https://announcement.thesatanictemple.com/rrr-campaign41280784

Bottom of the page.

 

[Dr. Keith]

It's the government's definition. That matters in terms of government-y stuff. They call corporations people, too. That doesn't make it real to an actual people.



Interesting link, thanks. I'd opine that people can embrace non-religious ideas or whatever with religious fervor, like a rabid football fan, or over the top atheist. Pinning it down gets tricky. Maybe how often you celebrate with a straight face rather than a smirk might be a tip.

Whew, you may not want to apply that to Catholicism. Especially if the priest is not pulling off his hangover very well.