Santa Claus

[Wolrab]

I played along until my son figured it out. It was wonderful watching the process as he went from complete belief ( I felt bad as he completely trusted me and I knew I was intentionally lying) to some doubt (while still trying to believe) to enlightenment. He now understands why I did it and tries to maintain the illusion for younger children.

Just last night, I told him the the Easter Bunny had already delivered his candy and by some weird coincidence there was a Walmart bag containing the exact type of candy.

He gave me a wink and told me the bunny must like the same stuff as me (no peeps, yuck!).

I can't understand how older children that were fed all the Santa/tooth fairy/Easter bunny stuff, can still believe in magical zombies and vengeful deities.

 

[rjh01]

Some beliefs never get questioned as the cost is too high. Questioning religion in a region where belief in a certain religion is close to 100% is one example.

 

[Comrade Raptor]

Traditions can be very strong, as well.

I don't do Christmas. I see no point in it, since I don't believe in any of it. But, Christmas is also associated with many fond memories. Some part of me does regret not doing the pointless exercise of slaying a tree to festoon it with baubles. I admit that. I'm still not going to put one up, but the association is still there.

On the plus side, I've still got good friends and booze. Especially the booze.

 

[Delvo]

The justification for lying about Santa Claus that keeps being given is that the kids have fun with it. But that relies on the obviously false premise that kids couldn't have fun with a fictional character... which nobody really even believes because we're all quite aware of many fictional characters that kids love. The fact that a character is fictional deprives that character's fans of nothing at all.

All that the lies really accomplish is making enjoyment of Christmas too dependent on and tied in with the lies, thus making Christmas unenjoyable to some people after they find out or figure out the truth. That's a net reduction in people's fun and happiness, not an increase in it, compared with the alternative of no deceptions... sorto like the fact that people who cling to a religion with an afterlife myth tend to show more fear of death than those who don't, not less as it's often advertised.

 

[Delvo]

I don't do Christmas. I see no point in it, since I don't believe in any of it. But, Christmas is also associated with many fond memories. Some part of me does regret not doing the pointless exercise of slaying a tree to festoon it with baubles.

It's a seasonal festival. You don't believe in the seasons?

 

[Manopolus]

Planet X. My only child never lived in the same house with me, so I had no say in the matter.

 

[Comrade Raptor]

It's a seasonal festival. You don't believe in the seasons?

So we chop down trees and cover them in gaudy trinkets because axial tilt causes northern hemisphere precipitation to form into cold flakes and accumulate?

Fair enough, but if that's all it takes to qualify for a stat holiday then I better damned well get time off for The Feast of Maximum Occupancy.

 

[AgeGap]

Not only is Santa Claus real if anyone stops believing I declare them apostate and condemn them to death.

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

The justification for lying about Santa Claus that keeps being given is that the kids have fun with it. But that relies on the obviously false premise that kids couldn't have fun with a fictional character... which nobody really even believes because we're all quite aware of many fictional characters that kids love. The fact that a character is fictional deprives that character's fans of nothing at all.

All that the lies really accomplish is making enjoyment of Christmas too dependent on and tied in with the lies, thus making Christmas unenjoyable to some people after they find out or figure out the truth. That's a net reduction in people's fun and happiness, not an increase in it, compared with the alternative of no deceptions... sorto like the fact that people who cling to a religion with an afterlife myth tend to show more fear of death than those who don't, not less as it's often advertised.

Exactly. The world is so full of lies and foolish beliefs already that it's really tragic that parents would betray their children in this way at such a young age. It's hard enough to wade through the scams in this world without getting screwed over by your parents when you're 4 years old.

It seems that many parents think it doesn't matter, but I think it has a huge impact and causes many children to doubt their parents from that point on. My parents never taught me to believe in Santa Claus, and I'm so grateful for it. I know many children who were quite traumatized and jaded by the whole experience.

Why would anyone want to make a fool of their children by tricking them with such a ridiculous story? And to the guy who said (I'm paraphrasing) that reality is mundane and we should let our children enjoy the fantasy while they can, I haven't ever, for one single day, felt that reality is mundane. And no child would ever feel that reality is mundane simply because they aren't told a stupid lie about Santa Claus.

I enjoyed Christmas even more, I believe, because it wasn't tainted in this way. I loved reading Christmas stories about Santa Claus, knowing full well that they were fictional.

 

[ddt]

Sinterklaas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas comes to the Netherlands every year with the Black Moor (Zwarte Piet) to pass out treats to all the children along the shore. My husband's (and mine, I guess) nieces and nephew are all on Dutch TV when they get their treats when their school classes to go and meet him! It is just a lot of plain fun. Out oldest niece, Shanna, has figured it all out by now, she's 11, but she is like a little mother and still joins in the fun and helps her siblings and cousin find all the joy in seeing him.

Yeah, my family and his go along with the fun. Why ruin the magic for the kids? And for us? It warms our hearts to see them having so much fun and get into the spirit of giving.

This.

That Santa Claus guy is really a cheap knock-off of Sinterklaas, invented by Coca-Cola. And with his extreme obesitas, he really is a bad role model. No wonder US health care is in such dire straits.

If I had kids, I'd happily celebrate it with them. It also is fun for grown-ups: drawing straws whom to give a present, and spending the effort of making an original packaging of the gift and writing an accompanying rhyme.

 

[Legend]

It's also worth noting that having someone going around emptying his sack underneath children's Christmas trees is just not acceptable.

**Ban**

Alex.

 

[Miss_Kitt]

We just this past year moved from having "real" Santa to acknowledging that Santa was usually Mom and Dad. I just checked with Beauty Girl, and she said she did not suspect prior to that--thanks in part to a wonderful Shopping Mall Santa, who answered her question with an explanation of "helping the Real Santa out" that met her concerns nicely.

She seems to not have suffered any trauma or great disappointment at finding out her parents played this game; especially since we still do stockings, Santa gifts, etc. We love Santa and the spirit of non-reciprocal giving he stands for. We watch Rudolph and Santa Claus is Coming to Town and Frosty the Snowman on DVD every winter. As I told her when she asked me, I believe in the spirit of Santa!

I have shared this in a different thread I believe, but my favorite example of 8-year-old logic was when Beauty Girl decided to give the Easter Bunny a thank you card and some carrots a few years ago. She set her gifts over by the hearth, and I suggested that she put them up on the table where the cats wouldn't get to them. She gave me that condescending look small children give adults whom they consider clueless, and explained: "Mom, I know it's not a real bunny. It's a guy in a bunny suit--he'll come down the chimney, like Santa." QED

Holidays are what you make of them, I think Santa is a wonderful tradition and one I would not yield without major financial crisis. The world needs magic and love and giving without expectation!

Just my thoughts, MK

 

[kittynh]

http://www.humanistsnps.com/Article.asp?AID=606

worked for me, but I think it's a personal choice.

Just remember, Santa is often more for the adults than the kids. And that's ok.

 

[Belgian thought]

children are fictional in my household, theres no evidence that supports their existence

Unseen and not heard.... Great kids!

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

The justification for lying about Santa Claus that keeps being given is that the kids have fun with it. But that relies on the obviously false premise that kids couldn't have fun with a fictional character... which nobody really even believes because we're all quite aware of many fictional characters that kids love. The fact that a character is fictional deprives that character's fans of nothing at all.

All that the lies really accomplish is making enjoyment of Christmas too dependent on and tied in with the lies, thus making Christmas unenjoyable to some people after they find out or figure out the truth. That's a net reduction in people's fun and happiness, not an increase in it, compared with the alternative of no deceptions... sorto like the fact that people who cling to a religion with an afterlife myth tend to show more fear of death than those who don't, not less as it's often advertised.

Indeed.

In a way, I got the best of both worlds though. I never lied to my kids about Santa (never lie to my kids full stop) and, when asked, always said he wasn't real and we bought the prezzies but they believed anyway as everyone else kept telling them about Santa. Once they realised the truth there was no backlash against me as I'd been honest but they were a bit peeved with their teachers, grandparents etc. Didn't spoil the 'magic' of Xmas for them though - if anything, their enjoyment increased once they understood why they got some of the things they wanted and not others!

 

[bruto]

No Santa here. They got exposure in school and elsewhere, and an explanation of the difference between symbolism and reality at home. Kids do, afterr all, have a great skill at fiction and fantasy, and they need not believe in the literal truth of the games they play or the roles they take on in them. My kids still seemed capable of enjoying the rituals and elaborate fictions of Christmas without being played for suckers.

I like KittyNH's link.

 

[Fnord]

There is no Sanity Clause in our marriage contract.

 

[IMST]

I'm trying to make it real, but I just can't get the kids to understand the concept.
Fry just tilts his head at me in incomprehension and Leela just meows to be fed treats.

 

[Cainkane1]

6 "No" responses so far, to 2 "Yes" options.

If anyone cares to explain, it interests me to know why they were discouraged (supposition) from believing in Santa Claus?

Alex.

I never had children but if I had had them I would have told them up front there ain't no Santy Claus. They learn it pretty quick on their own. Unfortunantly I didn't figure it out until I was 10 and boy was I ashamed. Same with the tooth fairy and the easter bunny, pixies etc. I hate woo because of this.

 

[bruto]

When I was little Santa Claus was never pushed on me, but when I was about 3, my older sister, who loved to pop bubbles, gleefully assured me that there was no such thing as Santa Claus, assuming, I think, that I would be as shocked as she apparently had been when she found out. Since I'd given the matter virtually no thought at all, and what little thought I might have given it was probably confused, I was happy enough to have things clarified. I was a pretty matter-of-fact kind of kid, and never very subtle. I was always grateful to my parents for not trying to sell me a lie.

My wife grew up in Cuba for the first 7 years of her life, where a great deal was made, not of Santa Claus, but the three kings. There was a lot of hoopla on the eve of 3 Kings day, even to the point, one year, of fake camel droppings in the garden. When she found out it was all a put-on she was furious about being manipulated and confused about what else she should trust or doubt. It's probably an especially bad policy for parents who are trying to raise their kids Catholic to raise them on outgrowable myths that differ so little from the ones they're supposed to hold on to.

I have no doubt there are some people who see Santa as part of the magical world of childhood, and credit those who perpetrate it with giving them the magic. Some of us, though, would rather see the wonder of what's really there. A life in the world itself seems enchantment enough.