Same-sex marriage

[Mariah]

STOP IT!

BPSCG, STOP IT! STOP IT!

You're making me bust a gut!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That won't work in my situation with the crusading telemarketers because they hang up before I can say anything, BUT, I can think of a zillion ways to use the things you sent. What classics.

 

[Mariah]

In fact, I know just where I can use them:

I'll print off your questions and keep them with me when I go with a busload of Baptists to the Mardi Gras come February. I'm going because I'm researching ideas about Heaven, but if I get really bored, or they tick me off with Creationist statements....

 

[Batman Jr.]

Well I find Kinsey to be fairly authoritative, it is a rather depressing figure though. But then, I'm relatively newly married so I put an optimistic face on it!

Laughable? I could cry! The argument against same-sex marriage is beyond illogical, it's just plain ignorant. Happily, in the UK there hasn't been much backlash since the new laws but I have heard a few under-the-breath mutterings from heterosexual married bigots who can't mind their own business.

You can pull your hair out over the foolish debate over here on the other side of the Atlantic. Unfortunately, the multitude of Republican "think tanks" has managed through repetition of their key messages as well as other carefully coordinated brainwashing techniques to convince the media to frame the dispute in terms of sexual orientation being either a choice or a congenital condition and that it being a choice would somehow rob a homosexual lifestyle of its ethicality. As we all know, the best way to defeat these distortions is to question what is actually so harmful about being gay even if it is a result of an individual so choosing to be so. The conservatives will respond to your challenge by confabulating studies about how gays cause delinquency in children. Ask them what journals the studies appeared in, you've won. Add the fact that violent sex offenders can get married despite them statistically posing a much greater threat to children than homosexuals, and you've completely humiliated the anti-gay activists.

 

[Ladewig]

Thanks, BP. What you describe is exactly what I did with other enterprises before the change in telemarketing laws. It worked nearly every time. The thing is, with these people, when they answer and I start to speak they hang up. That's what I don't know how to handle. They won't let me speak. Thanks for the advice, though. And anymore you may have.

If you are trying to find out who is behind it, then ask how you can make a donation to the cause. I am very confident that they will give you all the information you require.

 

[CBL4]

Get an internet phone and do not send out the phone number unless absolutely necessary. Since I got Vonage I have never received a telemarketing call except from people I do business with e.g. banks. It also saves money and you no longer have to change numbers.

When I used to get calls, I would simply put the phone down (not hangup) and walk away. Some of the people would talk for minutes before realizing it. I figured the best way to prevent calls was to cost them money talking to no one.

CBL

 

[Mariah]

Ladewig wrote:

If you are trying to find out who is behind it, then ask how you can make a donation to the cause. I am very confident that they will give you all the information you require.

Mariah says:

excellent, excellent idea. I can answer as if I really want to discuss the issue, as if I'm right on their page, get all the info and then....! Yes, thanks. I shall report back to you all on it.

 

[toddjh]

It's very hard to get good statistics on infidelity. When taking a look just now, I came across this site. I mention it not as good data, but more as evidence of why statistics aren't necessarily to be trusted about this kind of thing.

Have you ever cheated on someone?
â–ª Yes 41%
â–ª No 59%

Have you ever been cheated on?
â–ª Yes 68%
â–ª No 32%

Would you be unfaithful if you knew your partner would never find out?
â–ª Yes 8%
â–ª No 92%

Those numbers don't add up. Only 8 percent would cheat, but 41 percent actually did? How does that work? And what are the odds that the people taking the survey were cheated on more than 66 percent more often than they cheated?

The fact is, people lie about adultery, even in anonymous surveys. They're either deluding themselves or just too embarrassed.

Jeremy

 

[Mariah]

The fact is, people lie about adultery, even in anonymous surveys. They're either deluding themselves or just too embarrassed.

That's what I thought. That's why I think the real numbers are higher than most of us want to think.

 

[CBL4]

But a highly regarded 1994 study on American sexual behavior by the National Opinion Research Center found that about 3 percent to 4 percent of currently married people have a sexual partner besides their spouse in a given year. And about 15 percent to 17 percent of people who have been married say they've had a sexual partner other than their spouse while married.

http://8minutedating.com/press/pdfs/ABCNEWS_Monogamy.htm

This sounds very low to me but it was the first survey I found.

CBL

 

[Mariah]

But a highly regarded 1994 study on American sexual behavior by the National Opinion Research Center found that about 3 percent to 4 percent of currently married people have a sexual partner besides their spouse in a given year. And about 15 percent to 17 percent of people who have been married say they've had a sexual partner other than their spouse while married.

That's very, very low. And I'm not talking about long-term affairs, necessarily. One one-nighter will do. And there's confusion about what one being surveyed means when he or she thinks of "sexual partner." Bill Clinton DID NOT HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH THAT WOMAN...

 

[toddjh]

http://8minutedating.com/press/pdfs/ABCNEWS_Monogamy.htm

This sounds very low to me but it was the first survey I found.

It's hard to tell from the text of the article, but it almost sounds as if they're talking about marriages where outside sexual partners are allowed -- polyamory or swinging, in other words. I'd expect that to have very different results from a survey about cheating. Those numbers sound about right to me, if that's what they're asking.

Jeremy

 

[CBL4]

Here are two other low rates:
[/quote]At another point he concludes that one of the byproducts of slavery is the high infidelity rate among black males (27 percent, as compared with 19 percent for white men).
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/158243039X/102-6325226-5708955?v=glance&vi=reviews

The average age of respondents was 50, their average number of sexual partners was between four and five, just over 20% admitted to infidelity, 25% were divorced and 98% were heterosexual.

http://www.guysandstthomas.nhs.uk/page2658.htm

This link has surveys showing 29%, 34% and 70% for women.
http://www.stat.ucla.edu/~ktranbar/seconereadings/sherehite.pdf

To sum it up, most show a moderately low rate but the evidence varies greatly.

CBL

 

[Number Six]

I know it's hard to get good statistics on this stuff and sometimes we just go on impressions but my impression is that you couldn't get the percentage of people that cheat on their spouse to go as high as 85-90% even if you made cheating mandatory. Yeah, some people cheat, plenty even, but 85-90% is just crazy high IMO.

 

[toddjh]

I know it's hard to get good statistics on this stuff and sometimes we just go on impressions but my impression is that you couldn't get the percentage of people that cheat on their spouse to go as high as 85-90% even if you made cheating mandatory. Yeah, some people cheat, plenty even, but 85-90% is just crazy high IMO.

I have to agree there, too. Sometimes it's hard enough finding one person who wants to have sex with you...

Jeremy

 

[Mariah]

Yeah, some people cheat, plenty even, but 85-90% is just crazy high IMO.

I hope you're right, but I have to ask: how old are some of you?
How many times have you been around the block?


__________________

 

[toddjh]

I hope you're right, but I have to ask: how old are some of you?
How many times have you been around the block?

Yeah, and terms need to be defined, too. Do open relationships count as cheating? I'm sure some surveys would include that (perhaps unintentionally) in the way they phrase their questions.

Jeremy

 

[BPSCG]

excellent, excellent idea. I can answer as if I really want to discuss the issue, as if I'm right on their page, get all the info and then....!

The whistle! The whistle!

Or start asking serious questions, then gradually trail off into the inane ones. Start with something a little silly, like, "Um, are you going to come pick up the check, or should I mail it?"

When they give you the address, you suddenly become very hard of hearing and spelling.
"Locks 49?"
"Oh, BOX 49..."
"Oh locks 149..."

"New York... can you spell that?"

"ZIP code 11762... then what?"

"Do I have to put a stamp on the envelope, or do you pay for the postage...?"

"Uh-huh. Okay, how much does the stamp cost? Can I just put one stamp on the envelope, or do I need a lot?"

"Okay. Okay, now I have a question: Where do I get these stamps? My husband died recently and he used to do all these things for me. I miss him terribly..." (try to make your voice crack here)

"Will you send me a receipt?"

"What does the receipt look like? I need to know, so I know what to watch for."

"When will you get my check?"

"And how soon after you get it will you cash it? Can you call me when you're ready to cash it so I can put some money in the account?"

"What are you going to do with my money?"

"How do I know you aren't just going to spend it on whiskey?"

"If you do spend it on whiskey, can I come over and have some, too?"

"If I send this to you today, will you pray for me? My doctor says he found a spot on my lung and I'm afraid it might be, you know, like, cancer or the AIDS."

"My friend says you can get the AIDS from a toilet seat. I don't think that's right. I mean, doesn't it depend on what you're doing on the toilet seat?"

"I didn't do anything bad on the toilet seat. Do you think I have the AIDS? Would you pray for me? I mean now? Right now?"

"Oh, one other thing. Can you tell me how to open a checking account? I don't have one. My late husband used to do all these kinds of things until he died. I miss him terribly. He had the AIDS - that's what he died from. Do you think I could have gotten the AIDS from him? We didn't do anything on the toilet seat. At least not together. But we did fun stuff in bed. Would you like to hear some of the things we used to do? The neighbors used to tell us they could hear the things we used to do. They called the police once. Well, twice, actually..."

 

[Mariah]

You're killin' me, BP. Stop! Stop now. I had my gall bladder out two years ago and it's still a-spasmin' on me!
You oughta get paid for this!

 

[Number Six]

Yes, terms need to be defined. I'd define cheating on your spouse as "Having intercourse while married and not separated." And throw oral sex in there too if you want.

I know one case isn't generalizable but let me tell you about my dad growing up. He'd leave home every workday at 7:30 sharp and get home every day at 5 sharp. Sure, he could've been doing anything during the day, although his job didn't allow him a lot of freedom to do as he wished so if he wanted to cheat during work he'd have had to make a real effort to pull it off. But aside from the time at work he'd have had a heck of a time cheating because he was never away from his family long enough and in those rare times when he was he was in a easily and quickly locatable time and place. And my mom was around even more than him.

And I don't think people like that are rare. There are lots of people that just got to work and come home and that's mostly it...spending work time at work and home time at home with their family. It doesn't necessarily mean they're ecstatic and have a perfect, idyllic life, but it's just what they do every day. Such people tend to not get noticed as much because people that do things stand out whereas people that do nothing fade into the background.

I think this is a corollary to "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" think. People that draw attention to themselves get more attention and consequently we tend to overestimate the percentage of such people. Conversely people that live quite, ordinary lives go unnoticed because their lives are quiet and ordinary.

 

[Mariah]

Little Number Six

Your picture suits you, Number Six.

(I'm funning with you.) You make some valid points. Thank you.