Ronald Reagan dies

RandFan said:
No, I'm getting a woody thinking about Reagan getting all that national attention and just how much it just pisses you off. :D

Let's see,
  • Ted Kennedy praises Reagan.
  • John Kerry praises Reagan.
  • Jimmy Carter praises Reagan.
  • Gorbachev Praises Reagan.
  • Clinton praises Reagan.
Clinton is upset because he didn't get to speak at Reagans funeral.

No, you probably get your woody thinking about raping nuns and throwing them out of helicopters. (Just my opinion, not a fact.)
 
rikzilla said:
President Reagan was not perfect, but he was the best President this country has had in recent memory. But don't take my word for it. Read the link that the above quotes come from here There are dozens of other articles just like it. Witness the disconnect between your biased opinions and the rest of this country. How does it feel Shemp, to be so isolated in your bitter hatred of a man you've never even met?

Tonight my daughter and I will be among those filing through the Capitol rotunda to pay our respects to the man. I am proud that someday the same flag which covers his coffin will also cover mine.

The United States is not a good country, nor is it a bad country...it's just that it's my country. You can choose your country of origin no more than you can choose the family you were born into. You don't have to agree with every action your nation or family members make...but you do have to love them anyway. I appreciate the chance that the Reagan state funeral will give me to tie my family into an event of historical signifigance, and help further instill in them a sense of love and awe for America.

I don't know what happened to you that you should be so immature and angry Shemp, but whatever it is, you need to let it go.

-z

I guess my father-in-law is also isolated and disconnected. When told of Reagan's death, he spit on the ground and said "good riddance!" He is not some young hothead. He is 79 years old, and was one of those who stormed the beaches on D-Day. He served in WWII and Korea, and has two Purple Hearts, one from each of those wars.

Why does he hate Reagan so? Because he LOVES his country. He fought six years in two wars for his country. He then had a career with the AFL-CIO, as an organizer in Maine. He also was involved in the Maine Democratic Party for many years.

He saw what Reagan did to this country. He stomped on the poor, enriched the rich, demonized liberals and anyone else who disagreed with his methods, and lied over and over again to the people. He did NOT bring down communism, it died of internal economic injuries, but he was sure there to take the credit.

If you are ever in the same room as my father-in-law, I would like you to look him in the eye and tell him that he is not a true American, that he is disconnected and isolated, that he hates his country.

You, of course, are certain that anyone who disagrees with your way of thinking is a traitor. You are the one who needs a lesson in what America stands for. It does not stand for raping nuns and throwing them out of helicopters, and covering it up. I like to think it stands for something better than that. You think that any means are justified, so long as the end is good in your book.
 
shemp said:
My Fact: 32 women were kidnapped and thrown out of a helicopter by Reagan's lackeys.
  • I see no evidence to prove Negraponte killed or condoned the killing of anyone.
  • If it can be proven this does not mean that Reagan condoned or authorized the killing.
 
shemp said:
You're point is nothing but a diversion from the real issue.
Life's a bitch. Your post is about Negroponte and assuming for sake of argument he did kill anyone your post does not prove Reagan had anything to do with it. So in the end it is YOUR post that is a diversion.

My Fact: 32 women were kidnapped and thrown out of a helicopter by Reagan's lackeys.
Fact? Well, this is a skeptics forum. I'm skeptical. Do you have any proof other than an article on a web site?

Do you believe everything you read on the web?

Your Opinion: The U.N. is morally corrupt.
No, my opinion is that the person who wrote the article is a stupid twit to assume the U.N. is there to protect human rights.

I think facts trump opinions around here, but if that has changed, please let us all know.
When you get some facts and not some conspiratorial BS you let us all know, 'k? Untill then I will remain skeptical and you can belive in UFOs or Aliens or whatever is printed on some article on the web.

Hey Shemp, Sylvia Brown has some nice articles written about her on the web. Oh, and there are articles that say some rather nasty things about James Randi. Should we belive those also?

I think you are seriously confused as to what facts are. Just because someone says something does not make it true. You should really make a point of reading Randi's column every week. Here is the link Randi's Commentary
 
shemp said:
No, you probably get your woody thinking about raping nuns and throwing them out of helicopters. (Just my opinion, not a fact.)
Nice to know you have some vague understanding about the difference between facts and opinion.

You sure have an obsession with raping nuns and throwing them out of helicopters. Sounds like you are projecting. Perhaps you should see a therapist.

BTW, Nanci Pelosi praised Ronald Reagan. Wow! That's gotta hurt.
 
shemp said:


I guess my father-in-law is also isolated and disconnected. When told of Reagan's death, he spit on the ground and said "good riddance!" He is not some young hothead. He is 79 years old, and was one of those who stormed the beaches on D-Day. He served in WWII and Korea, and has two Purple Hearts, one from each of those wars.

I wasn't talking about your F-I-L, I was talking about you. You are the one that continuously makes posts which unambiguously show your disdain for your own country. To my knowledge your F-I-L does not do this.

Why does he hate Reagan so? Because he LOVES his country. He fought six years in two wars for his country. He then had a career with the AFL-CIO, as an organizer in Maine. He also was involved in the Maine Democratic Party for many years.

So you equate hatred of Reagan with love of country? I equated your well known history on JREF with hatred of America. Why? Because the two positions are virtually identical. Again, I could care less what your F-I-L thinks. He is not the subject of my original post, you were. Your attempt at deflection is noted.

He saw what Reagan did to this country. He stomped on the poor, enriched the rich, demonized liberals and anyone else who disagreed with his methods, and lied over and over again to the people. He did NOT bring down communism, it died of internal economic injuries, but he was sure there to take the credit.

You've made yourself out to be a moron so many times in the past that I feel it's redundant to call you that now. But I will anyway. Consider it said.


If you are ever in the same room as my father-in-law, I would like you to look him in the eye and tell him that he is not a true American, that he is disconnected and isolated, that he hates his country.

If I am ever in the same room with this man I'll thank him for his service to our country. Then I'll offer him condolences on his daughter's taste in men.


You, of course, are certain that anyone who disagrees with your way of thinking is a traitor. You are the one who needs a lesson in what America stands for. It does not stand for raping nuns and throwing them out of helicopters, and covering it up. I like to think it stands for something better than that. You think that any means are justified, so long as the end is good in your book.

Thank you so much for this peek inside your strange straw-filled head. But stay far away from the burning candle of reason, it would be dangerous to your "mind".

-z
 
rikzilla said:
If I am ever in the same room with this man I'll thank him for his service to our country. Then I'll offer him condolences on his daughter's taste in men.

Thank you so much for this peek inside your strange straw-filled head. But stay far away from the burning candle of reason, it would be dangerous to your "mind".
Shemp's Father-in-law. The arbiter of all that is good and bad. I wonder if it ever occured to Shemp that there are many Vets who disagree with his F-I-L. Reasonable people can disagree. My F-I-L was a Vetran of World War II. He was in the Navy. He didn't storm any beaches but he saw combat. I loved him as my own father. He was a true skeptic and was honest as the day is long. He passed away two years ago. There is a signed photo of Ronald Reagan in my mother-in-laws hallway. My F-I-L admired Reagan. I wonder what Shemp would have said to him had he met him?
 
Ronnie's kids were raised by nannies and maids and brought out only for photo ops.
He gave the commencement speech at son Michael's graduation from boarding school, and did not recognize him.
"Hello, I'm Ronald Reagan," he said to his son, "what's your name?"

By the way, it is un-American to suggest that if you criticize your country you don't love it. Cheap shot.
 
subgenius said:
By the way, it is un-American to suggest that if you criticize your country you don't love it. Cheap shot.
Who said that those who critisize don't love their country? I said that this is a political forum and that this is precisely the place to criticize. I just found it distasteful to criticize so soon after the man had died. It is possible to find criticism to be in poor taste and still not un-American. I also don't understand the palpable contempt and hatred from people who profess to be liberal. An ideology steeped in compassion and forbearance.

If you are talking about someone else never mind. It would be helpful if you could identify the source of your strawma..er point.

Edited to add, looks like you are talking about rik. Never mind. I'll let him speak for himself.
 
RandFan said:
Shemp's Father-in-law. The arbiter of all that is good and bad. I wonder if it ever occured to Shemp that there are many Vets who disagree with his F-I-L. Reasonable people can disagree. My F-I-L was a Vetran of World War II. He was in the Navy. He didn't storm any beaches but he saw combat. I loved him as my own father. He was a true skeptic and was honest as the day is long. He passed away two years ago. There is a signed photo of Ronald Reagan in my mother-in-laws hallway. My F-I-L admired Reagan. I wonder what Shemp would have said to him had he met him?

My own F-I-L was a police supervisor in England. His last 2 years on the force were spent at Windsor Castle where he was in charge of the Castle's security. He was also a Korean war vet. When Reagan visited England for a summit my F-I-L interfaced directly with the secret service for Reagan's visit with the Queen @ Windsor. The guy was a big fan of Thatcher and Reagan. He was a tad disgusted with me for my (then) liberalism,..but not so much that he didn't personally pull a few strings to get our wedding done in St. George's chapel in the castle.

He was a good man and I miss him. I just wish he was still alive so that I could tell him how right he always was.

-z
 
subgenius said:

By the way, it is un-American to suggest that if you criticize your country you don't love it. Cheap shot.


Well if all you do is criticize it, it is reasonable to conclude that you may not love it.....here is what I guess you think is my offending comment towards Shemp:
So you equate hatred of Reagan with love of country? I equated your well known history on JREF with hatred of America. Why? Because the two positions are virtually identical.

Critique away.... :rolleyes:

-z
 
[(Reagan) gave the commencement speech at son Michael's graduation from boarding school, and did not recognize him.

Yeah, right.

You'd believe anything bad about Reagan, won't you?
 
Skeptic said:
[(Reagan) gave the commencement speech at son Michael's graduation from boarding school, and did not recognize him.

Yeah, right.

You'd believe anything bad about Reagan, won't you?
No, I wouldn't. Now what, you say, "Yeah you would"?
 
By the way, it is un-American to suggest that if you criticize your country you don't love it.

You're missing the point. For some people, it is not that their country is sometimes wrong, but that their country is always wrong, its leaders always idiots, its actions always despicable, its populace (except for themselves and their "right-thinking" friends) are always brainwashed and naive, and so on and so forth.

Glibert and Sullivan had such guys pegged over 100 years ago. In "The Mikado", Ko-Ko, the lord high executioner, has a "little list" of "society offenders who may well be underground--and may none of them be missed!". It includes, inter alia,

...and the idiot who praises in exhilirating tones/
all centuries but this, and every country but his own.


Apparetly those on Ko-Ko's list was never actually executed, or at least managed to reproduce first, since their descendants are still with us in this forum, still saying, "who??? ME????? Hate my country??? Whatever gave you that idea???".

You can just see the missing scene from the Mikado, where the "idiot who praises" above on the list sings to Ko-Ko in reply,

Do you really wish to argue
as I think I can detect
that my endless criticism
is a sign of disrespect?

Do you really wish to argue
with no "if"s or "and"s or "but"s
that I do NOT love my country
--just because I hate its guts?


(...or the equivalent... it's easier than I thought to write like that... )
 
Skeptic said:
By the way, it is un-American to suggest that if you criticize your country you don't love it.

You're missing the point. For some people, it is not that their country is sometimes wrong, but that their country is always wrong, its leaders always idiots, its actions always despicable, its populace (except for themselves and their "right-thinking" friends) are always brainwashed and naive, and so on and so forth.

I can't see the point you are trying to make. There is no-one here like that.

If there was, you may try arguing with them about it. As it is, you are just wasting space.
 
rikzilla said:



Well if all you do is criticize it, it is reasonable to conclude that you may not love it.....here is what I guess you think is my offending comment towards Shemp:


Critique away.... :rolleyes:

-z
Thats interesting Rik...You claim to love your country yet you are a traitor. You stand by applauding as you watch your constitutional freedoms thrown in the gutter.

Shameful....how dare you critisize someone when you piss on the concept of liberty and justice that your nation is founded on...

Line up with the rest of the neocons rik, you are about to be assigned to the garbage bin of history....
 
Fourteen months ago, after the 3rd Infantry Division and Marines swept into Baghdad, Washington was at the feet of the neoconservatives who had been plotting and propagandizing for an invasion for years.

A celebratory breakfast was held at the American Enterprise Institute think tank, where William Kristol, Richard Perle and Michael Ledeen held forth in a spirit of joyous anticipation of wars and victories to come. At a dinner party at the vice president's mansion, Kenneth ("Cakewalk") Adelman, Lewis I. "Scooter" Libby, Cheney's chief of staff, and Paul Wolfowitz toasted one another and the president. As the '60s song went, "Those were the days, my friend, we thought they'd never end."


Now, enmeshed in a guerrilla war, Americans are demanding to know who told us we would be welcomed with garlands of flowers. Who said our troops would come home in a year? Who said democracy would flourish across the Arab world? Who misled us about the weapons of mass destruction? Who lied us into war?
....
According to the New York Times, U.S. intelligence officials claim that Ahmad Chalabi informed the top Iranian agent in Baghdad that the Americans had broken their top-secret code and were reading their messages to Tehran. Chalabi reportedly told his Iranian contact he got this intel from a high American official who was drunk.

According to writer Sidney Blumenthal, the FBI is now visiting AEI to interrogate scholars in residence – to learn who leaked word we had broken the Iranian code to Chalabi, who is emerging as the Alger Hiss of the neoconservatives.
...
Another scandal on the back burner that could explode and spill over before November is the Justice Department's investigation into the White House leak of the CIA identity of the wife of former Ambassador Joe Wilson. That leak was a retaliatory strike on Wilson for an op-ed in the New York Times that undermined Bush's claim in his 2003 State of the Union Address that Iraq was seeking uranium for nuclear weapons in the African nation of Niger.

Apparently, Justice is not only seeking to identify the leakers, but looking at the possibility that FBI investigators were misled or lied to. President Bush has himself hired outside counsel. As ever, it is not the offense, but the cover-up that ensnares them.

Then there is the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. This appears to be working its way up the chain of command toward the E-Ring of the Pentagon and even the West Wing of the White House. If orders went out to ignore the Geneva Convention, and prisoners who had nothing to do with terrorism were abused or tortured, or died in captivity, famous heads could roll.
....
Later this summer, the 9-11 Commission reports. It seems certain to single out Wolfowitz and administration neoconservatives along the line of argument of Richard Clarke's "Against All Enemies" – for an obsession with Iraq that blinded the White House to the real and present danger of bin Laden and al-Qaida.

Beyond this, the national press, cable television and the Internet are still flush with stories of how, in a secret Pentagon intel shop, neocons "cherry-picked" the prewar intelligence and "stove-piped" it up to Cheney's office, where it was inserted into the addresses of President Bush.

The Night of the Long Knives has begun. The military and CIA are stabbing the neocons front, back and center, laying responsibility on them for the mess in Iraq. Meanwhile, the Balkan wars of the American Right have re-ignited, with even the normally quiescent Beltway conservatives scrambling to get clear of the neocon encampment before the tomahawking begins.
.....
_________________

Just another liberal who hates his country?

Guess again.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38815


...
 
The Fool said:

Thats interesting Rik...You claim to love your country yet you are a traitor. You stand by applauding as you watch your constitutional freedoms thrown in the gutter.

Shameful....how dare you critisize someone when you piss on the concept of liberty and justice that your nation is founded on...

Line up with the rest of the neocons rik, you are about to be assigned to the garbage bin of history....
Rhetoric, AKA bull$hit.
 
subgenius said:
The Night of the Long Knives has begun. The military and CIA are stabbing the neocons front, back and center, laying responsibility on them for the mess in Iraq. Meanwhile, the Balkan wars of the American Right have re-ignited, with even the normally quiescent Beltway conservatives scrambling to get clear of the neocon encampment before the tomahawking begins.
It all comes back to the Nazis. Godwin was right.

More rhetoric and predictions, more BS. Time will tell.
 
Fool, i know you lack the intelligence to appreciate the irony of your post, so I'll explain it.

The Fool said:

Thats interesting Rik...You claim to love your country yet you are a traitor. You stand by applauding as you watch your constitutional freedoms thrown in the gutter.

In other words, Rik holds the wrong opinions. Some advocate of freedom you are. Your opinion of the situation is valid, opposing viewpoints are wrong by definition - your definition.

If this was an attempt to illustrate the point you are trying to make, then the mere existence of your post in an American-hosted forum puts the lie to your little foot-stomping tirade.

Shameful....how dare you critisize someone when you piss on the concept of liberty and justice that your nation is founded on...

See above.

Line up with the rest of the neocons rik, you are about to be assigned to the garbage bin of history....

Funny how you quote the very man you poke fun at for his inability to turn a phrase. It sounded better coming from him - it meant something then.
 

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