Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin and Christopia

[varwoche]

In 2008, after losing the GOP nomination, Ron Paul formally endorsed Pastor Chuck Baldwin, Constitution Party for POTUS.

Baldwin is part of a Christian separatist movement that intends to establish numbers in several northwest states (Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, eastern WA, eastern OR) called The American Redoubt. It's like the New Hampshire Free State Project but oriented for survivalist Christians.

Here is Baldwin going on about best selling(!?) author James Wesley Rawles who conceived The American Redoubt. (His novel reads like one of those bad fiction contests. )

And here is Rawles discussing his vision for Christopia:

The American Redoubt -- Move to the Mountain States
I concur that Pastor Chuck Baldwin was right when he "voted with his feet" and moved his family from Florida to Montana. Like Chuck Baldwin I believe that is time for freedom-loving Christians to relocate to something analogous to "Galt's Gulch" on a grand scale.
...
Christians of all races are welcome to be my neighbors. I also welcome Orthodox Jews and Messianic Jews, because we share the same moral framework.
...
I am a separatist
...
it will be a Biblically-sound and Constitutionally-sound silver local currency that will give it unity.

This isn't some vague association. Pastor Chuck, Christian separatist, was Ron Paul's goddamn choice for POTUS.

The purpose of this thread is to document the facts of these relationships, not debate libertarian philosophy.

 

[hgc]

Actually, the intersection of Christian theocracy and libertarianism has always been fascinating to me. Clearly, one needs to take some choice bites out of his libertarian purity in order to oppose abortion rights, for instance, or support bible-themed govt -- both of which Ron Paul has done.

 

[Firestone]

Isn't "Biblically-sound and Constitutionally-sound" a contradictio in terminis?

(Or is he not referring to the US constitution?)

 

[Puppycow]

Yup. No surprise here.

Have you heard about this strange episode?

Ron Paul Was Implicated In Failed White Supremacist Island Invasion

In 1981, a lawyer tried to subpoena Ron Paul to testify in the trial of Don Black, a Grand Wizard for the Ku Klux Klan who would later go on to found the white supremacist, neo-Nazi website, Stormfront. Black was charged along with two other Klansmen with planning to violently overthrow the small Caribbean country of Dominica in what they called “Operation Red Dog.” While a judge refused to subpoena Paul, Don Black would come back to haunt him many years later.

In 1981 a group of American and Canadian white supremacists lead by Klansman and mercenary, Michael (Mike) Perdue planned on taking over a small West Indian country called Dominica by overthrowing the government and Prime Minister Eugenia Charles and restoring its previous prime minister, Patrick Johns into power. The group planned to create an Aryan paradise in Dominica and make money through casinos, cocaine and brothels.

On the day the group of white supremacists were supposed to travel to Dominica, they were arrested by ATF agents and were found with over thirty automatic weapons, shotguns, rifles, handguns, dynamite, ammunition, a confederate flag and a Nazi flag. The plan would be dubbed “The Bayou Of Pigs” after the failed invasion of Cuba.

The leader of the group, Michael Perdue, would plead guilty to planning the coup and turned state’s evidence. Perdue would testify that several other people helped organize and fund the coup and that two Texas politicians were aware of the plan. Among those Perdue implicated were infamous white supremacist, David Duke, former Texas Governor, John Connally and Congressman, Ron Paul whom he claimed knew about the plot. Connally was credited with helping Paul win his first congressional election.

A judge refused to subpoena Paul and Connally despite the fact that Perdue had claimed that both of them were aware of the plot. Don Black’s friend and fellow KKK Grand Wizard, David Duke was called to testify before a grand jury but claimed that he would take the Fifth Amendment and never testified. While Duke was never charged with a crime, several books points to Duke as the organizer who connected Perdue to the other mercenary Klansmen and the people who funded their endeavor. (1 2 3) Everyone else implicated by Perdue was charged with the plot.

 

[Travis]

Does anyone else find the idea of a Christian Galt's Gulch both hilarious and fascinating?

 

[a_unique_person]

I read the OP, then some more, and thought I was hallucinating. Looked around to make sure I was still in reality, yep.

How much more weird does this all get?

 

[leftysergeant]

Does anyone else find the idea of a Christian Galt's Gulch both hilarious and fascinating?

Actually, having read "The Turner Diaries," I find it horrifying.

The actual, as opposed to stated goals, is to recruit an army of useful idiots for the RaHoWa.

 

[Chaos]

Actually, having read "The Turner Diaries," I find it horrifying.

The actual, as opposed to stated goals, is to recruit an army of useful idiots for the RaHoWa.

In order to recruit this army of Holy Aryan Bible Thumpers, they´ll have to remove them from wherever else they are... good for those other places, I say.

Once that is done, place a nice, electrified fence, land mines etc etc along the border - from the US and Canada sides - to make sure none of them escapes, and wait for Nazitopia to implode.

Because, seriously, what do you think will happen if the Herrenmenschen realize that they now have to haul off their own trash, clean their own septic tanks and do all the other dirty work? Galt´s Gulch is no fun at all in a reality without a magical horn-of-plenty machine that relieves you of the need to work for your living.

 

[Oliver]

Pastor Chuck, Christian separatist, was Ron Paul's goddamn choice for POTUS.

Soooou? Mickey Mouse would have been a better choice than the rest of the pack in 2008. Oh, and this election cycle it doesn't look any better.

 

[Chaos]

Soooou? Mickey Mouse would have been a better choice than the rest of the pack in 2008. Oh, and this election cycle it doesn't look any better.

So, if Mickey Mouse would have been a better choice... why did "Dr. Paul" go out of his way to pick somebody who was a worse choice? Why not pick Mickey Mouse? Or for that matter, why not grab a random guy off the street and endorse him instead of a white supremacist Christian fundie separatist?

 

[Donal]

What exactly is Biblically sound currency? I seem to remember some minor character saying something about "rendering unto Caesar". Probably way in the back. I always figured that meant don't worry about economic matters like that.

 

[Unabogie]

Soooou? Mickey Mouse would have been a better choice than the rest of the pack in 2008. Oh, and this election cycle it doesn't look any better.

A White Christian Separatist who wants to relocate all the white people to the mountains is a better choice than Barack Obama or John McCain?

You're sticking with that answer?

 

[hgc]

What exactly is Biblically sound currency? I seem to remember some minor character saying something about "rendering unto Caesar". Probably way in the back. I always figured that meant don't worry about economic matters like that.

It doesn't mean "don't worry about economic matters." It's more like "don't mix church and state." As a Roman subject, let Caesar rule you on the earthly matters, and God will take care of the heavenly stuff.

 

[Donal]

Still doesn't explain what is Biblically sound currency. In fact, it seems to be an axymoron.

 

[GreyArea]

Baldwin is part of a Christian separatist movement that intends to establish numbers in several northwest states (Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, eastern WA, eastern OR) called The American Redoubt. It's like the New Hampshire Free State Project but oriented for survivalist Christians.

That reminds me of the Western Semi-Autonomous Zone from the miniseries Amerika. Rumor had it that there was a resistance there, presumably why it was "semi-autonomous".

I guess Baldwin and company think they are living in a bad political fiction story.


Has anyone here read the Constitution Party's platform? I read one version of it several years ago. They're pretty far out there.

Actually, the intersection of Christian theocracy and libertarianism has always been fascinating to me. Clearly, one needs to take some choice bites out of his libertarian purity in order to oppose abortion rights, for instance, or support bible-themed govt -- both of which Ron Paul has done.

I don't think "libertarianism" is anything but cover for Paul. Rather, I believe that the term "paleo-conservative" is a more apt description, with a healthy dose of right-wing populism thrown in. Seen in that light, Paul's views appear internally consistent rather than filled with exceptions.

 

[Oliver]

A White Christian Separatist who wants to relocate all the white people to the mountains is a better choice than Barack Obama or John McCain?

You're sticking with that answer?

Endorsing someone who doesn't have a *********** chance no matter who it is, was better than endorsing Obama or McCain in 2008, yep.

See what I mean?

 

[Chaos]

Endorsing someone who doesn't have a *********** chance no matter who it is, was better than endorsing Obama or McCain in 2008, yep.

See what I mean?

Normally, when you endorse someone, you´re saying "This is the guy I´d like to win the election", and not "It doesn´t matter what the **** I do so I´ll just pretend to support a white supremacist fundamentalist nutcase who wants to tear the US apart".

Is - to use the most charitable interpretation - throwing a temper tantrum and acting like a raving lunatic whenever you don´t get what you want a quality you are looking for in a head of state?

 

[Suddenly]

Endorsing someone who doesn't have a *********** chance no matter who it is, was better than endorsing Obama or McCain in 2008, yep.

See what I mean?

If he's really a libertarian, why not endorse, you know, the Libertarian candidate?

 

[Ladewig]

What exactly is Bibilcally sound currency? I seem to remember some minor character saying something about "rendering unto Caesar".

Oooh. Now I want to find a Christan Separatist message board and start a thread advocating using silver coins with Caesar's image on them. If it was good enough for Jesus, then it should be good enough for us!

 

[Cleon]

Endorsing someone who doesn't have a *********** chance no matter who it is, was better than endorsing Obama or McCain in 2008, yep.

See what I mean?

Someone who endorses fascist separatists and has a strong backing by the neo-Nazi community is not a candidate I want in office. Not even for dogcatcher*.

* Actually, I'd say especially not for dogcatcher, as I don't want that SOB anywhere near gas chambers...