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Romney's Palestine gaffe today

Actually, I think the animus here isn't so much towards telling the truth about mainstream Palestinian culture (for a change), as it is towards the idea that Romney might actually be right about something.

The discussion over the "gaffe" isn't about whether he's right or wrong, it's about the nature of politics and what constitutes the kind of person who'll make a good President. The world would be an altogether too interesting place if politicians went round blurting out their every thought in public, however correct those thoughts might be.

Turn the argument about Palestine around ... let's suppose that Romney believes (as I do) that Israel's continuing settlement of the W Bank indicates that they are perfectly willing to maintain the state of conflict indefinitely. And he announces this in a speech to a large audience. Would that be a wise move?
 
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There's plenty of sectarian squabbling and throat-cutting going on in Palestine. So don't worry.

But the idea that people in Palestine, that is to say, your average person with a family and a place in society is going to risk it all to fight against well-armed militia for truth, justice, democracy, gay rights and all the rest is fantasy.

You mean the guys they voted for in a landslide.
 
Imagine if Obama had been caught saying the same about Israelis. The keyboard crusaders would have had an aneurism
 
"The Palestinians have no interest whatsoever in establishing peace,"

(probably already posted, but it's hard to tell amongst so many Romney gaffes ;) )

eta: the clip was released today, I see.

Recorded in private?

I know Israelis who have said this in private too.

What is more is that it is pretty accurate given the history of the region.

Are Libs so desperate that they have resorted to recording Romney in private in hopes he lets his guard down and rants. So, we are supposed to hate Romney for being a human geing now? All hail our chocolate Jesus !!
 
He is running for a position that would make him Head Of State. Saying something that would essentially preclude diplomacy is a major gaffe.

As a diplomat you have to say things that appease people even if they aren't essentially true.

One wonders why Wikilleaks went through all that trouble.

'Today the Romney campaign team released an official statement: Angela Merkel if fat, but a formidable negotiator'.
 
The discussion over the "gaffe" isn't about whether he's right or wrong, it's about the nature of politics and what constitutes the kind of person who'll make a good President. The world would be an altogether too interesting place if politicians went round blurting out their every thought in public, however correct those thoughts might be.

Turn the argument about Palestine around ... let's suppose that Romney believes (as I do) that Israel's continuing settlement of the W Bank indicates that they are perfectly willing to maintain the state of conflict indefinitely. And he announces this in a speech to a large audience. Would that be a wise move?

Politicians should be allowed to say what they really think.

Mel Gibson for president!
 
But the idea that people in Palestine, that is to say, your average person with a family and a place in society is going to risk it all to fight against well-armed militia for truth, justice, democracy, gay rights and all the rest is fantasy.

What in particular makes Palestinians different than, say, Syrians, Egyptians, and Libyans in this regard?
 
What in particular makes Palestinians different than, say, Syrians, Egyptians, and Libyans in this regard?

Nothing. They're not fighting for any of those things either.

However, there should be one thing that is worth bearing in mind and that is that none of them were under foreign occupation.

Another thing that is worth bearing in mind is that if "the prestige" was arguing that ordinary Palestinians should start slitting the throats of people in charge of aggression to a foreign country then maybe he needs to give some examples of when people do this usually.

ETA: Why is he calling for more violence from people he and Romney castigate for not wanting peace?
 
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When people say "American policy is thus-and-so", they don't mean that it's the agreed-upon policy of every American citizen, and only the most boring of pedants ever bothers to clarify this point.

But that would be a different group of boring pedants than those that object to phrases such as "Republicans don't believe in science, evolution, personal choice, the age of the universe, ,fill in your own, etc", as being too monolithic or all encompassing, right?

It was implied upthread that if your leadership believe it than it is a fair use of generalization, but that has never seemed to be the case before in any of the examples I mentioned.
 
The discussion over the "gaffe" isn't about whether he's right or wrong, it's about the nature of politics and what constitutes the kind of person who'll make a good President. The world would be an altogether too interesting place if politicians went round blurting out their every thought in public, however correct those thoughts might be.

Turn the argument about Palestine around ... let's suppose that Romney believes (as I do) that Israel's continuing settlement of the W Bank indicates that they are perfectly willing to maintain the state of conflict indefinitely. And he announces this in a speech to a large audience. Would that be a wise move?

I think there's a few different discussions going on. The issue of whether he's right has come up. The issue of whether he's overgeneralizing has come up.

And the issue of whether it's wise to tell the truth in this case has come up.

I think the answer to your question is, "it depends". Such an announcement would say at least three things. First, it would say to the Israelis that the Romney administration would be unsupportive of Israel's current settlement policy, and it might encourage them to reconsider that policy.

Second, it would say to the Palestinians that the Romney administration would be supportive of their insistence on preconditions to any peace negotiations, and it might encourage them to remain intractable and unwilling to negotiate until their preconditions are met.

Third, it would say to American voters that the Romney administration would be taking a harder line with Israel, and would expend more effort on championing the Palestinians in their dispute with the Israelis. It might encourage more voters to vote for him in November.

If that were what Romney was trying to say, and that were the encouragement he wanted too make, and he were reasonably sure it would work, then it might be wise.

But then again, it might not be wise. There'd be some backlash, of course. He'd be undermining the US-Israel relationship. He'd be enabling the Palestinian leadership. And he'd be alienating some American voters even as he courted others. Maybe the backlash would be acceptable. Maybe the tradeoffs would be worth it. Maybe it would be time to make a change in how we deal with Israel, and maybe a lot of American voters would agree.

Same thing with the announcement he actually made? What did it say? What behavior did he intend to encourage? Does he have a reasonable expectation that his intent will be accomplished? Is the likely backlash acceptable? Are the tradeoffs worthwhile? Was it a wise move?
 
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I think it's a perfect storm - a lot of folks can't abide the idea of Romney being correct about something (anything!)... and a lot of the same folks hate being judgmental about foreign cultures.
That and add a bit of anti-Semitism. ;)
 
Two state solution? Maps used in Gaza and West Bank schools don't even have Israel on them. Peace is wishful thinking and fantasy. Which probably explains why the left still believe in it.
 
Two state solution? Maps used in Gaza and West Bank schools don't even have Israel on them. Peace is wishful thinking and fantasy. Which probably explains why the left still believe in it.

What's your solution, Virus? I am not asking for nuanced thinking here but just some kind of viable end-point.
 
What's your solution, Virus? I am not asking for nuanced thinking here but just some kind of viable end-point.

The usual solution I hear is "turn our backs and let Israel bulldoze them into the water". Which is pretty much a non-starter, as is the alternative of withdrawing all support from Israel, lining up the guys with radiation suits a ways away, and waiting til the dust clears.

So, since "let them blow each other to hell" is not viable, the remaining alternative is "figure out a way to get to peace or at least some approximation thereof". Nobody should pretend that it will be easy, but progress only goes in one direction or the other.
 
The usual solution I hear is "turn our backs and let Israel bulldoze them into the water".

Really? I have never heard that one.

So, since "let them blow each other to hell" is not viable, the remaining alternative is "figure out a way to get to peace or at least some approximation thereof". Nobody should pretend that it will be easy, but progress only goes in one direction or the other.

False dichotomy.

If the Palestinians are ready for peace then it might be that the only course of action is that an armed stand off continues until the Palestinian leadership/culture changes. (Perhaps continued International Aid to Palestine could be made dependent on them removing glorification of terrorists from their curricula/TV - might help the next generation to be less unreasonable.)
 

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