Romney's misleading campaign ad.

steve s said:
It's not. It goes into effect in 2014, but the Republicons believe that just the threat of Obamacare eventually going into effect is enough to cause companies to stop hiring.

Steve S
Click to expand...

because, we all know that companies would rather pay for healthcare for their employees...?!
 
WildCat said:
No, it can't be... a dishonest politician, in America! Oh where has our innocence gone?
Click to expand...

Ah--the multiple wrongs make a right fallacy. I'd counter that with the "mom's retort": so if everyone else jumped off a bridge (or substitute any horrible policy or practice) would you do it too?


ETA: Dang it--I just noticed that Angrysoba beat me to that retort. :th:
 
Last edited:
WildCat said:
:confused:
Click to expand...

That's what I said!

http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/cm20071128ar01p1.htm -
...71 percent of private industry workers had access to employer-sponsored medical care plans and 52 percent participated in such plans...
Click to expand...

http://factsforhealthcare.com/management/Assets/EmployerNormsBook0210_2.pdf -
...The rate of healthcare inflation accelerated in 2009 for employers, increasing from 6.1 percent in 2008 to 7.3 percent in 2009. This followed more modest increases of 4.5 percent in 2006 and 4.7 percent in 2007,
according to Thomson Reuters data.
The 7.3 percent spike experienced by U.S. employers means their net healthcare payments for active employees increased from $3,113 to $3,341 in 20091. This cost increase comes at a particularly difficult time for U.S. companies struggling through the worst economic downturn in decades...
Click to expand...

By all accounts that I can find, at between 10 and 14%, healthcare coverage is the most expensive employee benefit paid by corporate america. I'm sure they are chomping at the bit to maintain this burden and its constantly escallating bite into earnings. Of course, under the current, conservative inspired US healthcare reform plan they get the worst of all possible worlds solution but that's the inevitable result of failing to enact and enforce effective campaign finance reform and compromising legislative reform to special interest concerns.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2010/February/23/GOP-1993-health-reform-bill.aspx
...summary of the 1993 bill:

Title I: Basic Reforms to Expand Access to Health Insurance Coverage and to Ensure Universal Coverage - Subtitle A: Universal Access - Provides access to health insurance coverage under a qualified health plan for every citizen and lawful permanent resident of the United States.

(Sec. 1003) Establishes a program under which persons with low incomes (and who are not eligible for Medicaid) will receive vouchers to buy insurance through purchasing groups...
Click to expand...
 
ANTPogo said:
On Fark, that fallacy is usually mocked by describing it as "Both sides are bad...so vote Republican!"
Click to expand...

:)

I thought of calling it the G. Gordon Liddy fallacy because I once heard him say explicitly "everybody was doing it" to defend his part in the Watergate break-ins. (The context was a Q & A session after his talk, when a retired policeman noted that with a career in law enforcement, you end up taking multiple oaths to uphold the law, so how does he justify committing a breaking and entering.)

So even Wildcat wasn't trying to argue straight up that Romney's lie in this ad is not wrong, he was certainly trying to minimize its wrongness.
 
Trakar said:
By all accounts that I can find, at between 10 and 14%, healthcare coverage is the most expensive employee benefit paid by corporate america.
Click to expand...
But the ACA does nothing to change that... in fact it mandates many employers who curently don't provide health insurance to do so. Which is one of my biggest complaints about it, I think the link between employment and health insurance should be severed entirely. Let employers concentrate on making widgets and whatnot, rather than making your health care their business.
 
ANTPogo said:
On Fark, that fallacy is usually mocked by describing it as "Both sides are bad...so vote Republican!"
Click to expand...
It's actually best described as the pot calling the kettle black. Being neither pot nor kettle, I'm free to mock the faux outrage by the partisan hacks.
 
WildCat said:
It's actually best described as the pot calling the kettle black. Being neither pot nor kettle, I'm free to mock the faux outrage by the partisan hacks.
Click to expand...

And mocking outrage doesn't make the lie less of a lie. It's still fallacious reasoning to suggest that it does.

And the "partisan hacks" nonsense is an ad hominem fallacy. It doesn't matter who points out that Romney's ad had a flagrant lie; it's still a flagrant lie.

What Romney did is right up there with quoting a review that said, "This production was a spectacular failure!" as, "This production was. . .spectacular. . .!" It's an egregious lie. Your observations of the emotional state of people pointing out that it's an egregious lie are completely irrelevant.
 
DavidJames said:
You are welcome to describe it any way you like. You're fooling no one.
Click to expand...

JoeTheJuggler said:
And mocking outrage doesn't make the lie less of a lie. It's still fallacious reasoning to suggest that it does.

And the "partisan hacks" nonsense is an ad hominem fallacy. It doesn't matter who points out that Romney's ad had a flagrant lie; it's still a flagrant lie.

What Romney did is right up there with quoting a review that said, "This production was a spectacular failure!" as, "This production was. . .spectacular. . .!" It's an egregious lie. Your observations of the emotional state of people pointing out that it's an egregious lie are completely irrelevant.
Click to expand...
You guys are funny!
 
DJW said:
The former gov. of my home state is a liar, i.e. he's a politician from here. I just don't get why or how politicians from this state advance into the national spotlight. It was probably Pres. Kennedy, but regardless, do not vote for people from Massachusetts, ever. They're hyper political bozos, drunken monied blowhards, lying liars who lie and bombastic gigolos. The last three speakers of the state house are convicted felons. We actually re-elected a man who was in jail at the time of the vote (Curley). Nuts. Nutty. Boston's Mayor Menino? He's an "alcatraz around our neck". Do not trust us. We know not what we do. Run far, far away.
Click to expand...

Aren't half the former governors of Illinois for the past few decades in prison or on the lam?
 
BenBurch said:
Any Romney ad in which he takes a position is misleading. Because he eventually takes every position.
Click to expand...

I understand we're stuck with political ads making pretty much any claim that is a matter of a position or opinion. (The infamous, "So-and-so is wrong on such-and-such issue.")


But saying that Obama said this is not a position or opinion. It's a false statement of fact. Romney should be made to answer for it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom