Romney Now Flip-Flopping on Foreign Policy

[angrysoba]

Do me a favor, stop with the straw men and focus on what I say and not what you dream up in your fevered head.

Have you ever had a discussion with Virus before?

The problem is, as proclaimed in his signature, that he doesn't accept anything "nuanced". His posts are almost exclusively simplistic sweeping generalizations coupled with declarations of having "ass-kicked" his opponents and the superiority of a culture that he rides the coat-tails of.

 

[Caper]

Catholics wanted? I think you know very little about Irish history if this is your summary of the events. It is best you don't opine on the issue for your sake. As they say, better say nothing and have everyone think you're a fool rather than post incontinently and ignorantly and remove all doubt.

Hey... that was the best I could do with one line.

 

[RandFan]

Well.... some people do.

A.) Yes, there are exceptions to just about everything. B.) Braggadocio isn't always truth. Just prior to the invasion of Kuwait the Iraqi soldiers bragged about how much they wanted to fight the Americans. Once they were defeated the stories from the captured changed dramatically.

 

[RandFan]

Have you ever had a discussion with Virus before?

The problem is, as proclaimed in his signature, that he doesn't accept anything "nuanced". His posts are almost exclusively simplistic sweeping generalizations coupled with declarations of having "ass-kicked" his opponents and the superiority of a culture that he rides the coat-tails of.

I've not had much discussion with him. He doesn't offer much of substance.

 

[Caper]

A.) Yes, there are exceptions to just about everything. B.) Braggadocio isn't always truth. Just prior to the invasion of Kuwait the Iraqi soldiers bragged about how much they wanted to fight the Americans. Once they were defeated the stories from the captured changed dramatically.

You're right.

 

[Virus]

BS
Wanting peace is a natural state for humans. No one wants to see their children die. They will accept the reality that their children will need to be put in harms way given certain dynamics (like those in the Mideast). The only people who pine for war are leaders and those who make money from war. They beat the war drums. And you are entirely without evidence. In any event, for those who care see this video.

You've just repeated the exact fallacy.

"They want peace because they should want peace."

You can't tell the difference between what is true and what should be true.

 

[RandFan]

You've just repeated the exact fallacy.

"They want peace because they should want peace."

No. That patently false. It is the nature of humans to want peace. Humans evolved to survive not commit suicide. Now, there is "the Jungian thing" the duality of man. Humans have evolved to also be war like but without doubt the natural state is to prefer peace.

You can't tell the difference between what is true and what should be true.

I strong suggest you spend more time learning how to spot fallacy.

 

[Virus]

No. That patently false. It is the nature of humans to want peace. Humans evolved to survive not commit suicide. Now, there is "the Jungian thing" the duality of man. Humans have evolved to also be war like but without doubt the natural state is to prefer peace.

Appeal to nature.

I strong suggest you spend more time learning how to spot fallacy.

Your posts are good practice.

 

[RandFan]

Appeal to nature.

No. It would be an appeal to nature if I made a normative statement based on nature. If you have blue eyes and I tell you that they are blue because of nature it NOT an appeal to nature. It's a statement of fact. Please learn how to spot fallacy.

Your posts are good practice.

Good practice at failing.

 

[Virus]

Good practice at failing.

I know your posts are.

You still can't do better than claiming they want peace because they should want it.

Maybe you're right. Maybe they use Nazi textbooks and want peace at the same time. But I'm not going to believe that just because you say it's what people should do.

 

[RandFan]

You still can't do better than claiming they want peace because they should want it.

"Should" is normative. I don't think they want peace because they "should". I think they want peace for the same reason they want to eat food, drink water or have sex. It's their nature.

You are in effect saying that I think people want food is because they should. No, that's NOT my argument that's your straw man.

Maybe you're right. Maybe they use Nazi textbooks and want peace at the same time. But I'm not going to believe that just because you say it's what people should do.

Spare me the straw men. I've never once made a normative statement about peace as it relates to this discussion. I've explained that to you so now you are just bald face lying.

 

[MG1962]

When did I say there was anything wrong with that? One side realized they were not going to get what they wanted.... so they gave up... to live in peace..

But you have to temper your remarks with the knowledge Irish Catholics were increasingly seeing the chance of a political solution, causing less and less support for the IRA. This in turn radicalized the IRA causing them to continue to lose support and also splinter.

And Catholics did get what they wanted...to be left alone, and not have to deal with groups like the UVF promoting their own little version of how Ireland worked.

I suggest reading this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_for_Peace_People#Peace_petition

This and later events prove that the Catholics didn't give up and that Unionists had equally had a gutful of the crap going on and wanted to just get on living with their neighbors

 

[WildCat]

You monitor Palestinian TV from Australia every day. I am impressed with your diligence.

Reading comprehension fail.

 

[WildCat]

No one wants to see their children die.

Demonstrably false, especially in Palestine.

















Well, that should be enough to make the point.

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

Of course they didn't vote Nazis for peace. That's ridiculous.

The Germans voted the NAZIs to power because they wanted war? Source for this? Was the population enthused about the invasion of Poland? Not from what I've read. Did Hitler even want war? Or did he blunder into it, thinking that if he threatened a war he would be given what he wanted, as he was with Austria and Czechoslovakia? He certainly seemed convinced that when he invaded Poland he could keep the war localized.

 

[MG1962]

The Germans voted the NAZIs to power because they wanted war? Source for this? Was the population enthused about the invasion of Poland? Not from what I've read.

I would challenge the statement the Nazis won any election as well

 

[WildCat]

The Germans voted the NAZIs to power because they wanted war?

I'm pretty sure he's talking about Hamas getting voted into power in Gaza. You know, that genocidal terrorist group dedicated to killing Jews and the destruction of Israel?

Do you need a source for that?

 

[Puppycow]

And there's no way to talk about what the Palestinians want without Godwinning the thread.

The thread has already been Godwinned since before you posted so don't worry about that.

I think both sides share the blame. The Palestinians have Hamas, but the Israelis have the settler movement, which they do nothing to reign in.

 

[uke2se]

Should we just start a new thread about Romney's flip-flopping? This thread has been successfully derailed.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Enhanced interrogation

Romney said at VMI that he expects all nations that get USA foreign aid will be expected to live up to their international commitments. But he has also said that he will re-institute torture, which violates international treaties that the USA has signed. Nothing but tough talk for the neocon hawks.

Link to an editorial on Romney's views on torture ("enhanced interrogation") here. Link to Charlie Savage article here. It does not seem as if Mitt has previously flip-flopped on this issue, although if he did change his present position, I would not be entirely surprised.