Romney and Religion in the Public Square

[DOC]

DOC's hoping his time will come. It will look like Iran -- with crosses...or maybe 15th Century Spain, or Calvin's Geneva or Jonestown....

Not really, my time would look more like this:

"It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became the church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson's example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four. Worship services in the House--a practice that continued until after the Civil War--were acceptable to Jefferson because they were nondiscriminatory and voluntary."

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2764227#post2764227

 

[Tanstaafl]

Oh!!! Wikipedia says so!!!

Can't get a better source than that*!!!!

*Well, it's hard to find a better source if you're totally full of crap

 

[DOC]

Your ignorance of Jefferson and his environment is abysmal.

I invite you to read this post and my other 420 posts in that thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2351125#post2351125

 

[DOC]

Oh!!! Wikipedia says so!!!

Can't get a better source than that*!!!!

Well if you don't like Wiki, you might like this source:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2.html

 

[Cleon]

I invite you to read this post and my other 420 posts in that thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2351125#post2351125

...And the responses, which despite the fact that you ignored the vast majority of them, proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that shadron's assessment is correct.

 

[headscratcher4]

Not really, my time would look more like this:

"It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became the church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson's example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four. Worship services in the House--a practice that continued until after the Civil War--were acceptable to Jefferson because they were nondiscriminatory and voluntary."

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2764227#post2764227

Clearly, you don't understand my point.

 

[Cello Man]

DOC: If I remember correctly, you identify as an evangelical Christian, yes? If so, would you feel completely at ease voting for a Mormon candidate who doesn't share your views?

 

[joobz]

I invite you to read this post and my other 420 posts in that thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2351125#post2351125

The topic of this thread is "Romney and Religion in the Public Square" not "links to lies DOC posts."

To help stay on track to the theme of this thread, I'll echo Cello man's question.

Do you think Mormon, christian, Jewish, Muslim candidates are equal?

 

[Glen.Nogami]

I'll add my voice to the chorus: DOC, for goodness' sake, keep your argumentum ad founding fathers to its own obnoxious thread that we can ignore if we want to. Don't go spamming the threads of others with that crap, too.

On topic, my morning paper today had an article about this speech, ranking the religions (and irreligion) by the percent of people who have a favorable opinion of them. The Jews and Catholics are out front with 76% each, evangelicals with 60, Mormons and Muslim Americans at 53%, plain ol' Muslims with 43%, and then atheists at 35%.

Good to know that people would vote for a foreign-born Muslim before they'd vote for me or most of the people on this board. I suppose atheists have to stay closeted for now, to get to any sort of office.

 

[DOC]

DOC: If I remember correctly, you identify as an evangelical Christian, yes? If so, would you feel completely at ease voting for a Mormon candidate who doesn't share your views?

I believe Mormons have partial truth because they believe Jesus is divine (and His teachings), but their concept of God is very different from mainline Christianity. Their dogma is God lives in "human form" near or on (not completely sure which) a planet/star named Kolob.

Most Mormons are good people and do good work.

In answer to your question, no, I wouldn't feel completely at ease with Romney, but I still could possibly vote for him because I might even be less at ease with the other candidate.

 

[Abe_the_Man]

I'm of the opinion that your time already came. It was called the Soviet Union. They had the godless society you desire.

Just because a country is primarily atheist/agnostic/non-religious doesn't mean it's a wretched hive of scum and villainy. Sure soviet Russia wasn't a great place to be but that was because of a corrupt government. Here is a list of statistics for Atheism/agnosticism/non-religiousness for different countries.

http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html

USA is right down near the bottom if you can't find it. Just a few above Croatia and Kyrgyzstan. The countries near the top of the list all have fairly high standards of living except for Vietnam (19.5% live below the poverty line).

 

[Glen.Nogami]

I believe Mormons have partial truth because they believe Jesus is divine (and His teachings), but their concept of God is very different from mainline Christianity. Their dogma is God lives in "human form" near or on (not completely sure which) a planet/star named Kolob.

(bolding mine)

Does it ever disturb you that the world's Mormons, as well as about a billion catholics, as well as hundreds of millions of muslims and hundreds of millions of Hindu people believe that you also have "partial" or less truth? Does it bother you that a hefty percentage of them probably believe that as or more fervently than you do?

How in the world do you know that you happen to have the "right" sky-chief?

 

[joobz]

In answer to your question, no, I wouldn't feel completely at ease with Romney, but I still could possibly vote for him because I might even be less at ease with the other candidate.

That's a truthful response.

So, do you interpret Romney's statment, "It's important to recognize that while differences in theology exist between the churches in America, we share a common creed of moral convictions," to mean differences between christian faiths or faiths in general?

 

[kmortis]

Clearly, you don't understand my point.

headscratcher,
Save yourself some time and just copy and paste that as a response to all of DOC's work.

 

[Bob Klase]

I'm of the opinion that your time already came. It was called the Soviet Union. They had the godless society you desire.

Clearly your time already came. It was called Iran and Afghanistan. They had (& have) the god-controlled society you desire- you're just living in the wrong country.

 

[joobz]

Clearly your time already came. It was called Iran and Afghanistan. They had (& have) the god-controlled society you desire- you're just living in the wrong country.

Knowing DOC, he will pretend this doesn't count becuase it is islam and not Christianity.

The real time that came of christianity was the age of kings which permited acts like the Inquisition. Thankfully, the US forefathers were smart enough to know that religion has no place in government. This seperation of church and state has been America's greatest trimuph in democracy and freedom.

 

[Puppycow]

Hitchens on Romney's Speech

 

[Senex]

Hitchens on Romney's Speech

Thanks for the link. I thought Hitchens was gentle given the material he had at his disposal.

How could anyone still be a Mormon after the South Park episode outing their lunacy. The South Park guys are as intellectual as they are funny -- and they are funny as hell. (hell is one of their best locations).

 

[Glen.Nogami]

He's certainly got Huckabee's number

[A]moon-faced true believer and anti-Darwin pulpit-puncher from Arkansas who doesn't seem to know the difference between being born again and born yesterday.

 

[Corsair 115]

...but I will not separate us from 'the God who gave us liberty.'

Hmmm, so God chose sides during the American Revolution? Did he pick just certain battles in which to give the colonials the victory, or was His support something broader?