Roger Waters promotes 9/11 conspiracy theories...

[Steve]

I protest!

Ed Sheeran isn't a rocker, his music is bubblegum pop. Waters, despite his faults, is a rocker.

I will accept that correction. I actually don't know that I have ever heard anything by Ed Sheeran.

 

[Axxman300]

That claim is based on the fact that a group of Israeli citizens (who were deported) were seen celebrating as the planes hit. Their van was found loaded with explosives IIRC and they worked for a removal firm that turned out to be a front for an Israeli spy organsiation.

This is an old lie, debunked decades ago. There were no explosives. The FBI cleared them. Anyone linking these men to 9-11 is antisemitic. It's that simple.

Er, the 9/11 terrorists were largely Saudi Arabians and now your POTUS is besties with...er...Saudi Arabia..?

I'd explain subtext to you, but you clearly don't read.

Erm, wasn't it the USA who installed the Al-Assad puppet..?

As a matter of fact, no, Dummy.

Stop! Stop! You are beginning to sound like a stock CIA character in a Netflix film.

So you contend that Arabs are antisemitc by their nature, and cannot help themselves? The IAF stages missions against Iran out of small airfields in Saudi Arabia. After 1973, Egypt, Jordan, and Syria mostly gave up attacking Israel, and while they're not fast friends, they are content to ignore each other for the most part. Syria has been a target, but they made themselves a target. But the idea that Arabs are antisemitic is biggoted.

Loving the "U.S.A! U.S.A!" spin you always so reliably put on things. It's heartwarming in your naive sort of way. Bless your heart.

So you didn't read it. Shocking.

This is about Roger Waters, known antisemite, claiming Israel was behind 9-11. That's it. There is nothing to defend. He's just another moron who doesn't understand gravity or fire.

 

[catsmate]

Do take a step back, and try to be objective and dispassionate. If you want to understand how history works, you need to pluck out your jaundiced eye and get rid of knee-jerk preconceptions. For example, were you to want to understand WWII, it's no good seeing things in terms of GB= 'good', Germany = 'bad'. Try looking through the prism of either side can be good or bad but what is relevant is the objective facts instead of a bombastic gungho cock-eyed view.

Childish tantrum. No supporting evidence for your claims.

Oh, and the thread is about Roger Waters' beliefs.

Then why try and distract with the "Dancing Jews" rubbish?

You might find them unsavoury but he has a track record of 'social consciousness' or whatever you like to call it, even if you vehemently disagree with them.

Irrelevant nonsense.

Sorry, in retrospect, that's a bit harsh. But fair.

No, it's a childish tantrum.

 

[catsmate]

The claim is factually documented. Unfortunately, it is behind a paywall [The New York Times} but confirmed here:

Reports in The Forward detailed that U.S. intelligence and FBI officials assessed Urban Moving Systems—a New Jersey-based moving company owned by Dominik Suter—was potentially a front operation for Israeli intelligence (Mossad) following the detention of five Israeli employees in New Jersey on September 11, 2001. [1, 2, 3]

If you want to understand Waters' mind set, I am afraid these reports are relevant.

So, no evidence then? Just more distraction? How typical.....

 

[catsmate]

The Forward newspaper report is accessible here:

https://forward.com/news/325698/spy-rumors-fly-on-gusts-of-truth/

So are you going to admit you posted nonsense then?

 

[catsmate]

NB: A police dog picked up a scent of explosives residue of the vehicle.

And yet there were no explosives......

 

[Mojo]

Spot the 'IIRC'.

As Vixen's "trusted interpreter", I'd better point out that "IIRC" almost invariably means she doesn't.

And also that it shouldn't be applied merely to the words it actually relates to in the post in question.

 

[Mojo]

The claim is factually documented. Unfortunately, it is behind a paywall [The New York Times} but confirmed here:

Reports in The Forward detailed that U.S. intelligence and FBI officials assessed Urban Moving Systems—a New Jersey-based moving company owned by Dominik Suter—was potentially a front operation for Israeli intelligence (Mossad) following the detention of five Israeli employees in New Jersey on September 11, 2001. [1, 2, 3]

If you want to understand Waters' mind set, I am afraid these reports are relevant.

Where?

 

[Mojo]

Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?

abcnews.com

See Betteridge's Law of Headlines.

 

[Dave Rogers]

The Forward newspaper report is accessible here:

https://forward.com/news/325698/spy-rumors-fly-on-gusts-of-truth/

So no explosives in the van then, for a start, and only speculation that the firm was a front for Israeli intelligence. As usual, an interesting usage of the word "fact."

Dave

 

[Andy_Ross]

And yet there were no explosives......

Obviously not, it was all in the towers.
The lack of explosives is the evidence for explosives.

 

[Vixen]

This is an old lie, debunked decades ago. There were no explosives. The FBI cleared them. Anyone linking these men to 9-11 is antisemitic. It's that simple.


I'd explain subtext to you, but you clearly don't read.


As a matter of fact, no, Dummy.


So you contend that Arabs are antisemitc by their nature, and cannot help themselves? The IAF stages missions against Iran out of small airfields in Saudi Arabia. After 1973, Egypt, Jordan, and Syria mostly gave up attacking Israel, and while they're not fast friends, they are content to ignore each other for the most part. Syria has been a target, but they made themselves a target. But the idea that Arabs are antisemitic is biggoted.


So you didn't read it. Shocking.

This is about Roger Waters, known antisemite, claiming Israel was behind 9-11. That's it. There is nothing to defend. He's just another moron who doesn't understand gravity or fire.

The issue was people claimed the 'celebratory Israelis' was a myth that didn't happen. It did happen and is documented.

The Israeli - Palestinian conflict isn't to do with 'anti-Semiticism'; that's just an ignorant excuse for shutting down any mention of it.

 

[Vixen]

Obviously not, it was all in the towers.
The lack of explosives is the evidence for explosives.

Well done!!! At last someone begins to understand how a CT develops.



Nobody is going to come and take you away.

 

[malbui]

There was an excellent early episode of "Elementary" in which Holmes unmasked an Israeli intelligence cell masquerading as a travel agency in NYC. Perhaps this is feeding into the myth.

 

[Mojo]

The issue was people claimed the 'celebratory Israelis' was a myth that didn't happen. It did happen and is documented.

The Israeli - Palestinian conflict isn't to do with 'anti-Semiticism'; that's just an ignorant excuse for shutting down any mention of it.

The issue was that someone claimed this:

"That claim is based on the fact that a group of Israeli citizens (who were deported) were seen celebrating as the planes hit. Their van was found loaded with explosives IIRC and they worked for a removal firm that turned out to be a front for an Israeli spy organsiation."

And they are now trying to find excuses for not being able to support it.

 

[catsmate]

Obviously not, it was all in the towers.
The lack of explosives is the evidence for explosives.

Ah, conspiracy nut 'logic'....

 

[catsmate]

The issue was people claimed the 'celebratory Israelis' was a myth that didn't happen. It did happen and is documented.

You're lying again.

The Israeli - Palestinian conflict isn't to do with 'anti-Semiticism'; that's just an ignorant excuse for shutting down any mention of it.

Strawman.

 

[Pixel42]

At last someone begins to understand how a CT develops.

Pretty much every regular poster on this forum understands how a CT develops. As JayUtah frequently reminds you, you are not the teacher here.

 

[Vixen]

Childish tantrum. No supporting evidence for your claims.

Then why try and distract with the "Dancing Jews" rubbish?

Irrelevant nonsense.

No, it's a childish tantrum.

Not at all. I was trying to #bekind by gently trying to point out to you the benefits of taking a step back - take a breath! - and try being objective and dispassionate when looking at historical events, rather than your usual reflexive response of heckling. I understand it is anxiety-provoking for some for fear of, I dunno, perhaps a fear of not conforming, or a fear that someone like yourself will shut you down or even worse a bully might come along to call you names.

The celebratory Israelis incident did happen, contrary to your characteristic knee-jerk response it didn't. I recommend you read the FORWARD article in full if you blindly think it 'rubbish'. This is a Jewish newspaper and yet it is perfectly capable of clear objectivity. Perhaps take a page out of its book and stop acting like you feel threatened by thinking. Facts might hurt but they won't change.

 

[Vixen]

Ah, conspiracy nut 'logic'....

Yes, can I suggest you look at the thread title and OP, if the penny is only dropping now.