Roger Waters promotes 9/11 conspiracy theories...

[Dave Rogers]

That claim is based on the fact that a group of Israeli citizens (who were deported) were seen celebrating as the planes hit. Their van was found loaded with explosives IIRC and they worked for a removal firm that turned out to be a front for an Israeli spy organisation.

"Fact." No.

Actually a conflation of a couple of long-debunked claims. Yes, a group of Israeli citizens were seen celebrating. Yes, they had a van. No, there were no explosives in it; can you imagine, if there had been, that they'd have been quietly deported?

Dave

 

[Andy_Ross]

Good Lord, not the "dancing Israelis". Fasten your seatbelts folks, because HERE . . . WE . . . GO!

But Donald saw dancing Muslims.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

But Donald saw dancing Muslims.

Good luck assessing the relative merits of those sources...

 

[Thermal]

Good luck assessing the relative merits of those sources...

Pulled out of the first three letters in the third word of your post.

 

[Thermal]

Verum stercoris.

 

[catsmate]

That claim is based on the fact that a group of Israeli citizens (who were deported) were seen celebrating as the planes hit. Their van was found loaded with explosives IIRC and they worked for a removal firm that turned out to be a front for an Israeli spy organsiation.

This is utter rubbish, a string of easily discoverable lies.

 

[Dave Rogers]

This is utter rubbish, a string of easily discoverable lies.

Which were well known to be such twenty years ago.

Dave

 

[Mojo]

Are these "dancing Israelis" the same people as the "dancing Muslims" that Trump claims he saw?

I suppose they might all look the same to some people.

Post in thread 'Roger Waters promotes 9/11 conspiracy theories...'

Monday at 8:41 PM

So your basis for linking it to Israel or the Jews is an antisemitic conspiracy theory.

Er, no because Arabic people are also Semitic.

• Vixen

 

[Helen]

Fact?

And I thought you told us they were Egyptians?

If they had been Egyptians, they would have walked, not danced.

 

[catsmate]

Which were well known to be such twenty years ago.

Dave

Oh I remember it well......

 

[Vixen]

Please provide sources for these claims. Ideally with links and direct quotations, but at the very least with references that are precise enough to identify the text you are relying on.

Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?

abcnews.com

 

[Vixen]

"Fact." No.

Actually a conflation of a couple of long-debunked claims. Yes, a group of Israeli citizens were seen celebrating. Yes, they had a van. No, there were no explosives in it; can you imagine, if there had been, that they'd have been quietly deported?

Dave

We are not discussing whether 9/11 conspiracy theories are true or not, we are discussing what Roger Waters might be predicating his 9/11 views on, as per the thread topic. The group 'celebrating' were Israeli, so not 'anti-Semitic' per se.

 

[JesseCuster]

Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?

abcnews.com

There's nothing in that link about them "celebrating", the van being "loaded with explosives" or the moving firm being "a front for an Israeli spy organisation."

 

[Vixen]

This is utter rubbish, a string of easily discoverable lies.

Do take a step back, and try to be objective and dispassionate. If you want to understand how history works, you need to pluck out your jaundiced eye and get rid of knee-jerk preconceptions. For example, were you to want to understand WWII, it's no good seeing things in terms of GB= 'good', Germany = 'bad'. Try looking through the prism of either side can be good or bad but what is relevant is the objective facts instead of a bombastic gungho cock-eyed view. Oh, and the thread is about Roger Waters' beliefs. You might find them unsavoury but he has a track record of 'social consciousness' or whatever you like to call it, even if you vehemently disagree with them.

Sorry, in retrospect, that's a bit harsh. But fair.

 

[Vixen]

There's nothing in that link about them "celebrating", the van being "loaded with explosives" or the moving firm being "a front for an Israeli spy organisation."

That's likely what Waters believes. IIRC he mentions the explosions theory in the Carlson Tucker video.

 

[Dave Rogers]

We are not discussing whether 9/11 conspiracy theories are true or not, we are discussing what Roger Waters might be predicating his 9/11 views on, as per the thread topic. The group 'celebrating' were Israeli, so not 'anti-Semitic' per se.

Then may I helpfully suggest that you stop presenting them explicitly as claims of fact, thus bringing them into the scope of the thread for discussion?

(You will of course deny you did any such thing, but we can all scroll.)

Dave

 

[Steve]

There's nothing in that link about them "celebrating", the van being "loaded with explosives" or the moving firm being "a front for an Israeli spy organisation."

It's all in there, if you filter it through Vixen's "interesting" brain.

 

[Vixen]

Then may I helpfully suggest that you stop presenting them explicitly as claims of fact, thus bringing them into the scope of the thread for discussion?

(You will of course deny you did any such thing, but we can all scroll.)

Dave

The claim is factually documented. Unfortunately, it is behind a paywall [The New York Times} but confirmed here:

Reports in The Forward detailed that U.S. intelligence and FBI officials assessed Urban Moving Systems—a New Jersey-based moving company owned by Dominik Suter—was potentially a front operation for Israeli intelligence (Mossad) following the detention of five Israeli employees in New Jersey on September 11, 2001. [1, 2, 3]

If you want to understand Waters' mind set, I am afraid these reports are relevant.

 

[Vixen]

It's all in there, if you filter it through Vixen's "interesting" brain.

Give it a rest.

 

[Vixen]

The Forward newspaper report is accessible here:

In particular, a group of five Israelis arrested in New Jersey shortly after the September 11 attacks and held for more than two months was subjected to an unusual number of polygraph tests and interrogated by a series of government agencies including the FBI’s counterintelligence division, which by some reports remains convinced that Israel was conducting an intelligence operation. The five Israelis worked for a moving company with few discernable assets that closed up shop immediately afterward and whose owner fled to Israel.


Other allegations involved Israelis claiming to be art students who had backgrounds in signal interception and ordnance.

Sources emphasized that the release of all the Israelis under investigation indicates that they were cleared of any suspicion that they had prior knowledge of the September 11 attacks, as some anti-Israel media outlets have suggested. The resulting tensions between Washington and Jerusalem, sources told the Forward, arose not because of the operations’ targets but because Israel reportedly violated a secret gentlemen’s agreement between the two countries under which espionage on each other’s soil is to be coordinated in advance.

https://forward.com/news/325698/spy-rumors-fly-on-gusts-of-truth/