Roger Waters promotes 9/11 conspiracy theories...

[Vixen]

And anti-Semitism is generally based on conspiracy theories, so they tend to go hand-in-hand. For example, the whole Nazi ideology was generally based on conspiracy theories about Jews.

Since 9/11 led to so many wars, renditions without trial (basically kidnapping suspects off the streets) and Guatanamo Bay, with zero legal rights, targetting Islamic countries, it's hardly surprising the 9/11 CT-ists have turned it around into an anti-Israeli propaganda war.

 

[Smock]

Since 9/11 led to so many wars, renditions without trial (basically kidnapping suspects off the streets) and Guatanamo Bay, with zero legal rights, targetting Islamic countries, it's hardly surprising the 9/11 CT-ists have turned it around into an anti-Israeli propaganda war.

Uhhhhhh, I know I'm going to regret this, but in for a penny . . . Why would things the US does (or doesn't do) in response to the 9/11 attacks reflect in any way on Israel or the Jews in general?

 

[Vixen]

Uhhhhhh, I know I'm going to regret this, but in for a penny . . . Why would things the US does (or doesn't do) in response to the 9/11 attacks reflect in any way on Israel or the Jews in general?

I was simply pointing out that protesting things such as the conditions in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank doesn't ipso facto equate to anti-Semiticism. It is possible to view the world objectively without taking sides.

Yes, the Nazi's did develop a World Conspiracy Theory in which Jews were both the Capitalists and the Communists. It doesn't follow that anyone who criticises Israel must be anti-Semitic. It is much more complex than knee-jerk love or hate.

Roger Waters is a ◊◊◊◊ but the fact remains those on the right are pro-Russia, like Waters and Trump. It doesn't follow they are the same, or follow the same reasoning. Richard Nixon was said to be anti-Semitic on a private level whilst officially pro-Israel (of course, being then POTUS). It is meaningless IMV to term everything 'anti-Semitic' as a technique to shut down debate.

 

[Puppycow]

Hmmm, seems like the goalposts were over there a minute ago.

 

[Vixen]

That certainly seems to be the consensus around here.


You must have had such penetrating access to the inner managerial workings and personal relationships of said management company, what with putting up promotional posters for them. What years did you do this, by the way?


And you know this, how? I'm not aware of him ever having been diagnosed as schizophrenic at any point. His own family members have said that he was not diagnosed with any mental illness, and that he was never given or recommended any therapy or medication.


As I said, a charming, witty, creative mad genius.


This is where I wonder if you're deliberately misrepresenting what I wrote, or if your reading comprehension is just that lacking. Did you not read my comments about him having written most of the songs on The Piper at the Gates of Dawn? Did you not read my account of his band mates missing their "charming, witty, creative mad genius"?

You can't just ignore the fact of his excessive LSD use. There are numerous accounts by people remarking about his rapid personality change. There are reports of his standing about on stage, strumming a single chord, or not playing at all, while staring off into space. Stories about him not knowing where he was, forgetting to bring his gear.


Pink Floyd was one of my earliest musical obsessions, going back some forty three yeas ago. As a kid, the closest I ever came to having a nickname was in the early '80s when my friend José called me "Floyd" in reference to my affinity for the band. But because he was the only one who did so, it never stuck. Some of the first songs I ever learned to play were Pink Floyd songs. I know your knee-jerk reaction is to establish that anyone who disagrees with you about anything is inferior to yourself in knowledge, but I don't need to reference Wikipedia to have a conversation about Pink Floyd.


How so? By not wanting to continue putting up with his drug abuse and the effect it was having on their writing, recording and performances? Were they treating him appallingly by making sure he continued to receive the royalty payments that supported him for the rest of his life?

Opinions are subjective.

Seems realistic.

Lots of people in that era took loads of psychedelic drugs without becoming basket cases. Barratt was clearly an undiagnosed schizophrenic, IMV (Brian Wilson was also obviously mentally ill). Maybe the drugs triggered it off and pushed him over the edge, who knows? but Barratt was 'arty' before then: typical art student with eccentric tastes in decor and arty/trendy clothing, always a little weird, which is reflected in his innovative musicianship. Roger Waters did pen the wonderful 'Julia Dream', very Barratt-like. (NB I never met anyone from Pink Floyd, I was flyposting for Roy Harper's concert at the RAH, in the mid-seventies FYI). We can't blame the band for snubbing Barratt because after all kerching-kerching super group fame is sure to turn most people's head and 'sell out'.

To give Waters credit, he did quit Pink Floyd in 1985 because he thought it 'creatively finished'. So now he and Dave Gilmour are completely estranged.

The New Arab* reports;:

Other participants listed by organisers and promotional materials include former US congressman Dennis Kucinich, evolutionary biologist Bret Weinstein, investigative journalist Nick Bryant, commentator Jimmy Dore, filmmaker Jason Bermas, journalist James Corbett, retired US Air Force lieutenant colonel Karen Kwiatkowski, and journalists Derrick Broze and Ben Swann.

The programme also includes former first responders and witnesses to the attacks, among them retired FDNY captains Richard Patterson and Karin DeShore, former NYPD sergeant Rick Bylicki and William Rodriguez, a former World Trade Center janitor who survived the attacks.

Timed for 11 - 13 September 2026, one could say, it's all very bad taste. Is it right or wrong? I don't know but you can see where the opposing sides come from

*Of course, it would.

 

[Smock]

I was simply pointing out that protesting things such as the conditions in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank doesn't ipso facto equate to anti-Semiticism. It is possible to view the world objectively without taking sides.

Yes, the Nazi's did develop a World Conspiracy Theory in which Jews were both the Capitalists and the Communists. It doesn't follow that anyone who criticises Israel must be anti-Semitic. It is much more complex than knee-jerk love or hate.

Roger Waters is a ◊◊◊◊ but the fact remains those on the right are pro-Russia, like Waters and Trump. It doesn't follow they are the same, or follow the same reasoning. Richard Nixon was said to be anti-Semitic on a private level whilst officially pro-Israel (of course, being then POTUS). It is meaningless IMV to term everything 'anti-Semitic' as a technique to shut down debate.

Blah blah blah blah . . . talking points, talking points, talking points . . . blah blah blah . . . What does this have to do with you stating that America's response to 9/11 (and all that it entailed) has led to CT'ists turning that response into an "anti-Israeli propaganda war." What does the US government's response to 9/11 have to do with Israel or Jews in general that would lead a CT to an anti-semitic or anti-Israeli bent?

 

[Vixen]

Blah blah blah blah . . . talking points, talking points, talking points . . . blah blah blah . . . What does this have to do with you stating that America's response to 9/11 (and all that it entailed) has led to CT'ists turning that response into an "anti-Israeli propaganda war." What does the US government's response to 9/11 have to do with Israel or Jews in general that would lead a CT to an anti-semitic or anti-Israeli bent?

Please see the post I was responding to.

 

[Mojo]

Please see the post I was responding to.

 

[Smock]

Please see the post I was responding to.

You mean my post? Where I asked:

Uhhhhhh, I know I'm going to regret this, but in for a penny . . . Why would things the US does (or doesn't do) in response to the 9/11 attacks reflect in any way on Israel or the Jews in general?

 

[Vixen]

You mean my post? Where I asked:

I was responding to PuppyCow who commented most CT's are anti-Semitic. This is because the 9/11 CT theory has it that Israel was behind the attack to give the USA an excuse to attack Arabic countries.

 

[Smock]

I was responding to PuppyCow who commented most CT's are anti-Semitic. This is because the 9/11 CT theory has it that Israel was behind the attack to give the USA an excuse to attack Arabic countries.

Uhhhhh, no you weren't. You quoted my post, which I included above. So unless you are adhering to Forum rules that nobody else has even heard of, you were "responding" to my post.

 

[Mojo]

I was responding to PuppyCow who commented most CT's are anti-Semitic. This is because the 9/11 CT theory has it that Israel was behind the attack to give the USA an excuse to attack Arabic countries.

Nope, it goes back way further than that.

And you have entirely failed to answer Smock's questions. If anyone needs to see the post you were responding to, it would appear to be you.

And by the way:

I was simply pointing out that protesting things such as the conditions in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank doesn't ipso facto equate to anti-Semiticism.

No, you weren't. This is what you posted:

Since 9/11 led to so many wars, renditions without trial (basically kidnapping suspects off the streets) and Guatanamo Bay, with zero legal rights, targetting Islamic countries, it's hardly surprising the 9/11 CT-ists have turned it around into an anti-Israeli propaganda war.

That is in no way "pointing out that protesting things such as the conditions in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank doesn't ipso facto equate to anti-Semiticism."

 

[Vixen]

Nope, it goes back way further than that.

And you have entirely failed to answer Smock's questions. If anyone needs to see the post you were responding to, it would appear to be you.

And by the way:

No, you weren't. This is what you posted:

That is in no way "pointing out that protesting things such as the conditions in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank doesn't ipso facto equate to anti-Semiticism."

Given that a sizeable portion of 9/11 'truthers' are Islamists or Islamic scholars in Middle Eastern countries and elsewhere, it is not really an 'anti-Semitic' issue - although it might be for some - when Semitic is the main ethnicity of Middle Eastern countries and the Levant.

What do you or Smock understand by 'anti-Semitic'? It really doesn't equate to anti -USA.

 

[Mojo]

What do you or Smock understand by 'anti-Semitic'?

I suppose I should refer you to a dictionary.

 

[Mojo]

Given that a sizeable portion of 9/11 'truthers' are Islamists or Islamic scholars in Middle Eastern countries and elsewhere, it is not really an 'anti-Semitic' issue - although it might be for some - when Semitic is the main ethnicity of Middle Eastern countries and the Levant.

And I suppose I'd better remind you what Smock's question was: Why would things the US does (or doesn't do) in response to the 9/11 attacks reflect in any way on Israel or the Jews in general?

 

[Mojo]

And ask you to support this claim:

Given that a sizeable portion of 9/11 'truthers' are Islamists or Islamic scholars in Middle Eastern countries and elsewhere...

 

[Vixen]

And I suppose I'd better remind you what Smock's question was: Why would things the US does (or doesn't do) in response to the 9/11 attacks reflect in any way on Israel or the Jews in general?

The claim is it was a false flag to go to war with Afghanistan. Al-Quaeda and all that?

You need an understanding of Middle Eastern politics to understand the claims and counterclaims.

Saying 9/11 'truthers' are anti-Semitic is simplistic. Roger Waters, for example, is strongly opposed to the Gaza annexation. He might be a nutter but simply handwaving it away is to ignore the politics arising from 9/11.

 

[Mojo]

The claim is it was a false flag to go to war with Afghanistan. Al-Quaeda and all that?

A false flag operation by who?

 

[Axxman300]

Saying 9/11 'truthers' are anti-Semitic is simplistic.

No, and if you knew anything about the 9-11 "truth" morons you'd know it started with antisemitic claims by a French conspiracy loon that Israel was behind the attacks. All the initial lies came from his book. You talk to a 9-11 CTs long enough - AS WE ALL HAVE - you eventually find an antisemite.

Roger Waters, for example, is strongly opposed to the Gaza annexation.

I must have missed his benefit concert for the Yazidis and the Kurds.

Why is their oppression and murder okay, but when Israel does it, it's suddenly bad? There's a word for that.

And bin Laden stated his beef with the US was partially the presence of US forces in Saudi Arabia, but mostly our support for Israel. Plus, the Twin Towers were targeted because Al Qaeda assumed a lot of Jews worked there.

As for our adventures in the Middle East since 9-12-2001, if anyone can point out how anything we've done has benefited Israel I'm all ears.

 

[Vixen]

A false flag operation by who?

Er, the Israelis, is the theory. You know, and I know, it is cobblers, but this is real to some.