Ed Rob Menard's FOTL Claims

[D'rok]

Let's focus on the Security of the Person, as that is easily the stupidest of the lot. Go.

 

[FreemanMenard]

m. menard:
everyone here has been waiting for evidence that your claims are true.
none has been provided.
...ever.

I claim the government is composed of people and they are bound by the law.

What EXACTLY about that did you want me to prove?

 

[D'rok]

Let's have a little dose of reality. What happens when one of Menard's victims acts on his claims? Here is a typical example.

Hi,

I'm a 25 year old man, living peacefully in Victoria, B.C. and wanted to share my story with my fellow man.

I started a siding business in 2007, from a start-up loan of $20,000, for tools and storage trailer. In the past 2 years I endured some long droughts with no work because my competition was drastically dropping their prices. I didn't jump on the band-wagon because I take pride in my work, and couldn't lower my standards just to get a job. With all the extra time on my hands, and being completely broke, I started to research “Natural Persons”, which led me to “Free Man On The Land”. My research led me to believe that a Free Man is someone in Common Law jurisdiction, who can lawfully refuse to consent to being governed, so long as they don't infringe upon individual rights of others, and abide by the golden rule “Do No Harm”.


On January 21, 2011, I proceeded by sending a Notice of Understanding and Claim of Right, along with an Asseveration, to the local tax office and to the Minister of National Revenue. I requested that they respond, in writing, with any supporting information to dismiss my Claims or Statements of Truth.


On February 11, 2011, two Canada Revenue Agency agents showed up at my door, threatening to seize my property if I didn't get back on track with the payment plan. At this point there was still $3000 'owing' from a 08' filed tax return, but I was completely broke, so I couldn't get back on track with the payment plan even if I wanted to, and I was still trying to establish how Income Tax applied to me, let alone how I was going to pay it. When I explained my position to the gentlemen and requested their response in writing, they laughed at me, said they wouldn't supply anything and left.


Fearful they would take my property, on February 14th I sent another Asseveration and a Demand for Discovery “proof positive that the adult free will living man, commonly called John of the Doe family is determined by law to be a permanent accessory attached to the Crown owned name, JOHN SMITH DOE, and thus the property of the Crown, thus making him a slave owned by the corporate Crown, and thus Her Majesty in right of Canada, and thus subject to confiscation of the fruits of his labour and of his risk investments, then, under the ACCESS TO INFORMATION ACT of CANADA, demand is upon you to provide that proof of enslavement under the rights of discovery for threatened or pending legal action against this adult free will man by way of the imposition of a Crown owned name, JOHN SMITH DOE, upon him.”


In early March I was contacted by a CRA agent from the Victoria B.C. tax center, via telephone, demanding I make payments. My response to him was similar to my documents, demanding proof positive, in writing, that the alleged debt applies to me, as I do not consent to being identified by the legal name JOHN SMITH DOE, or any name whatsoever. He said they would Not provide any documentation, and said something about a legal warning as he hung up the phone.


Maybe it wasn't my best choice of action, but I honestly thought I had some ground to stand on, and was eagerly awaiting a response with some kind of supporting information.


Less than a week later, a Court Bailiff showed up at my mom's house accompanied by two peace officers, with a Writ of Seizure for all my property if I couldn't come up with the money on the spot. I requested 24 hours to arrange something, and was denied. Being completely broke, I had no possible way of making the payment in such short notice, so the Court Bailiff insisted on calling a tow truck and taking everything I owned; $10,000 worth of tools, $2500 storage trailer and my $2000 Dodge Neon. With a Peace officer who threatened me with Obstruction in the very beginning if I wouldn't Identify myself, I was actually scared he would taser me, so I complied under duress and handed over the keys. When I requested that I get my tool-belt and rain-gear so I can at least try and find a job, I was denied by the Court Bailiff. But, I wasn't too upset at this point, as I figured $15,000 worth of tools and vehicles would settle the alleged debt, and leave me with a few thousand to get back on my feet.


However, I was contacted by the Court Bailiff who said all my property was sold for a mere $4000, and after all the fees and charges ($2500) only $1540 was credited to the debt, and that there was still $1700 owing!!! I was shocked, and literally heart broken. I was in a bad position before with no money coming in, but now that I had my only means of making a living stripped from beneath me, I feel like they've taken my life from me. Not only did they take everything, but they pretty much gave it away. I spent 4 hard years paying off all those tools and trailer, to have it all flushed down the drain with the stroke of a pen over $3000 is incomprehensible to me. If they really wanted me to get rid of all my property to settle the alleged debt, I could have sold the items myself and made $4000 - $5000 profit.


I feel completely helpless, abused, discriminated against and harassed. I'm at the point where I fear for my life, overwhelmed with anxiety every time I think about it. The part that I truly don't understand is, if Income Tax is meant to help the less fortunate, then why did they insist on taking everything. They took everything I have and they're still demanding more. I don't know if I have a remedy, but I would appreciate any advice or knowledge you could share with me.



Sincerely,
JOHN DOE

Mr. DOE was luckier than some, as following Menard's advice only ruined his life. Unlike many other victims, he didn't have to go to jail.

 

[FreemanMenard]

Let's have a little dose of reality. What happens when one of Menard's victims acts on his claims? Here is a typical example.



Mr. DOE was luckier than some, as following Menard's advice only ruined his life. Unlike many other victims, he didn't have to go to jail.

I don't see him following my advice at all. As a matter of fact, I have spoken out against the use of asservations.
Had he followed my path he would have abandoned his SIN. But he didn't and therefore still had an account with them.

And lets place blame where it belongs. It was not I who seized his property was it?

 

[D'rok]

I don't see him following my advice at all. As a matter of fact, I have spoken out against the use of asservations.
Had he followed my path he would have abandoned his SIN. But he didn't and therefore still had an account with them.

And lets place blame where it belongs. It was not I who seized his property was it?

Exactly the response we expect. Throw your customers under the bus when your teachings inevitably fail. We are well aware that you have no empathy with your victims. Always blame the victim, never take responsibility yourself. Despicable.

 

[bikerdruid]

What EXACTLY about that did you want me to prove?

d'rok's list was very comprehensive.
please prove the following:

- Your birth certificate is really a stock certificate that you can redeem for cash and/or services
- Security of the Person means a financial instrument that the government secretly holds based on your value as a slave
- Human beings are not persons
- Statutes can be ignored if you send notices to the authorities indicating that you don't consent
- Courts have no jurisdiction if you don't consent
- Silence is acceptance
- Notaries have all the powers of police, lawyers, and judges including the ability to convene a court
- All of the above is legal - i.e., it is the way the law really is.

these are your claims, right?

 

[sadhatter]

I don't see him following my advice at all. As a matter of fact, I have spoken out against the use of asservations.
Had he followed my path he would have abandoned his SIN. But he didn't and therefore still had an account with them.

And lets place blame where it belongs. It was not I who seized his property was it?

Rob, you always go right to the " They did it wrong." whenever someone gets in deeper crap than they started in by following the freeman garbage. Maybe, just maybe, if everyone who tries it can't get it to work, then it is not them screwing it up, but rather the fact that the freeman ideology, in all its various flavors is simply bunk.

If a company puts out a certain kind of tool, and a few folks lose a finger, it can be reasonably assumed that it is user error. If this same company makes a tool, and every single person that uses it looses a finger, it is pretty obvious it is a design flaw in the tool.

But all of that is somewhat secondary, if you really wanted to show your flavor of the freeman stuff works, why not simply go around the country, doing things the rest of us sheep cant, and film you doing so? This wouldn't be labor intensive, and would rapidly show that your flavor is the one that works.

Instead you seem to just sit back and say " Good try, but you ****** up." every time some poor lost soul decides to give your magic spells a go.

 

[FreemanMenard]

d'rok's list was very comprehensive.
please prove the following:

- Your birth certificate is really a stock certificate that you can redeem for cash and/or services
- Security of the Person means a financial instrument that the government secretly holds based on your value as a slave
- Human beings are not persons
- Statutes can be ignored if you send notices to the authorities indicating that you don't consent
- Courts have no jurisdiction if you don't consent
- Silence is acceptance
- Notaries have all the powers of police, lawyers, and judges including the ability to convene a court
- All of the above is legal - i.e., it is the way the law really is.

these are your claims, right?

Nope. Those are D'Roks strawman argument. Those are what he claims are my claims. So why should I defend them? And the difference between them and mine I have previously explained many times.

 

[Garrison]

I don't see him following my advice at all. As a matter of fact, I have spoken out against the use of asservations.
Had he followed my path he would have abandoned his SIN. But he didn't and therefore still had an account with them.

An argument that amounts to claiming that he should have said 'abracadabra' instead of 'alakazam'. The reality is that no form of magic FOTL words has ever been shown to work.

And lets place blame where it belongs. It was not I who seized his property was it?

No you are simply one among many peddling a a ludicrous claim that there is some near mystical form of words that will absolve a person from paying taxes and erase their debts. I suppose a lack of empathy or social responsibility goes with being a Freeman.

 

[jargon buster]

Rob, everyone of those statements is in your videos/literature, you are a liar.

 

[D'rok]

Nope. Those are D'Roks strawman argument. Those are what he claims are my claims. So why should I defend them? And the difference between them and mine I have previously explained many times.

Picking one of my "strawmen" a random.

Notary Publics according to Menard:

Perhaps you are wondering how I will do any of these things, as I am sure you are
thinking “The courts won't allow that; they are on our side.” Here is where you
really need some education. I will be if necessary convening a court and using a
Notary Public to conduct the first part concerning the exchange of affidavits and
establishment of facts. You will have to respond by way of a sworn affidavit
submitted to the Notary Public holding court. If you fail a default judgement
will be secured and collection proceedings initiated. If you do respond, you
will have to do so under your full commercial liability and under oath. If you
are found saying untrue things or expressing falsehoods under oath, you risk
facing criminal charges of gross negligence and abduction under the colour of
law. If you don't think I can do such a thing with a Notary, you need to read
Section 18 of the Notary Act. They are the joker of the deck and can do anything,
you, a judge or a sheriff can do. They are all powerful when they choose to
serve justice. They are the lawful witnesses to process and standards. Notary
Publics ROCK.

Doesn't it get tiring lying so much?

 

[FreemanMenard]

An argument that amounts to claiming that he should have said 'abracadabra' instead of 'alakazam'. The reality is that no form of magic FOTL words has ever been shown to work.



No you are simply one among many peddling a a ludicrous claim that there is some near mystical form of words that will absolve a person from paying taxes and erase their debts. I suppose a lack of empathy or social responsibility goes with being a Freeman.

So having a SIN and collecting benefits, is the same as NOT having a SIN and not being able to collect benefits?

WOW....

No wonder some of you will never be able to understand this perspective...
You can have a SIN or not, and as we are all equal, that is our choice, but if you choose to have one, and I do not, you will have burdens and benefits I do not.

Seems simple and logical to me.... no abracadabra at all, simple logic.
Right Danny Boy?

 

[FreemanMenard]

Picking one of my "strawmen" a random.

Notary Publics according to Menard:



Doesn't it get tiring lying so much?

I see a difference between what I said and what you claim y argument is... it is a subtle though distinct shift.

Read the Notary Act. It is right in there.... why should I be bothered trying to show you if you are not willing to even read? Section 18 (I think) Notary Act.... And the reason I think that, is that when I brought it to the attention of a Notary Public he agreed.

So take it up with him then...

 

[FreemanMenard]

No you are simply one among many peddling a a ludicrous claim that there is some near mystical form of words that will absolve a person from paying taxes and erase their debts. I suppose a lack of empathy or social responsibility goes with being a Freeman.

Oh but there are near magical ones which do compel them to pay, regardless of their consent?
Being a Freeman is about accepting responsibility, and realizing there are no magical words either way, just logic and reason. I guess to you, those things must seem magical and mystical, eh?

 

[D'rok]

I see a difference between what I said and what you claim y argument is... it is a subtle though distinct shift.

Read the Notary Act. It is right in there.... why should I be bothered trying to show you if you are not willing to even read? Section 18 (I think) Notary Act.... And the reason I think that, is that when I brought it to the attention of a Notary Public he agreed.

So take it up with him then...

I said:

"Notaries have all the powers of police, lawyers, and judges including the ability to convene a court"

You said:

"They are the joker of the deck and can do anything, you [the RCMP], a judge or a sheriff can do. They are all powerful when they choose to serve justice"

Quit lying.

 

[bikerdruid]

Nope. Those are D'Roks strawman argument. Those are what he claims are my claims. So why should I defend them? And the difference between them and mine I have previously explained many times.

that is a lie.
i have followed your 'teachings' for several years.
i have downloaded and read most of your materials.
you have claimed all of those things, perhaps not in precisely the same words.

 

[solzhenitsyn]

I see a difference between what I said and what you claim y argument is... it is a subtle though distinct shift.

Read the Notary Act. It is right in there.... why should I be bothered trying to show you if you are not willing to even read? Section 18 (I think) Notary Act.... And the reason I think that, is that when I brought it to the attention of a Notary Public he agreed.

So take it up with him then...

You stated:

If you don't think I can do such a thing with a Notary, you need to read
Section 18 of the Notary Act. They are the joker of the deck and can do anything,
you, a judge or a sheriff can do. They are all powerful when they choose to
serve justice. They are the lawful witnesses to process and standards. Notary
Publics ROCK.

I presume you were referring to legislation in BC:

The Notaries Act, RSBC 1996, c 334 (available here)

Rights and powers of members
18 A member enrolled and in good standing may do the following:

(a) draw instruments relating to property which are intended, permitted or required to be registered, recorded or filed in a registry or other public office, contracts, charter parties and other mercantile instruments in British Columbia;
(b) draw and supervise the execution of wills
(i) by which the testator directs the testator's estate to be distributed immediately on death,
(ii) that provide that if the beneficiaries named in the will predecease the testator, there is a gift over to alternative beneficiaries vesting immediately on the death of the testator, or
(iii) that provide for the assets of the deceased to vest in the beneficiary or beneficiaries as members of a class not later than the date when the beneficiary or beneficiaries or the youngest of the class attains majority;
(c) attest or protest all commercial or other instruments brought before the member for attestation or public protestation;
(d) draw affidavits, affirmations or statutory declarations that may or are required to be administered, sworn, affirmed or made by the law of British Columbia, another province of Canada, Canada or another country;
(e) administer oaths;
(e.1) draw instruments for the purposes of the Representation Agreement Act;
(e.2) draw instruments relating to health care for the purposes of making advance directives, as defined in the Health Care (Consent) and Care Facility (Admission) Act;
(e.3) draw instruments for the purposes of the Power of Attorney Act;
(f) perform the duties authorized by an Act.

Just in case though I took the liberty of reviewing s. 18 of every piece of legislation entitled The Notaries Act (or Notaries Public Act) in Canada. Here they are:

Notaries Act, RSY 2002, c 158
Statutes of Yukon — Yukon
Current version: in force since Jan 1, 2003
2.
Notaries Act, RSBC 1996, c 334
Consolidated Statutes of British Columbia — British Columbia
cited by 10 cases
Current version: in force since Jul 1, 2010
3.
Notaries Act, RSO 1990, c N.6
Consolidated Statutes of Ontario — Ontario
Current version: in force since Aug 20, 2007
4.
Notaries Act, RSQ, c N-3
Consolidated Statutes of Quebec — Quebec
cited by 73 cases
Current version: in force since Feb 14, 2011
5.
Notaries Public Act, RSNL 1990, c N-5
Consolidated Statutes of Newfoundland and Labrador — Newfoundland and Labrador
Current version: in force since Jun 24, 2010
6.
Notaries Public Act, RSNB 1973, c N-9, [Repealed or spent]
Replaced by : Notaries Public Act
Consolidated Statutes of New Brunswick — New Brunswick
Past version: in force between Jun 22, 2006 and Aug 31, 2011
7.
Notaries Public Act, RSNB 2011, c 197
Consolidated Statutes of New Brunswick — New Brunswick
Current version: in force since Sep 1, 2011
8.
Notaries Public Act, RSA 2000, c N-6
Consolidated Statutes of Alberta — Alberta
Current version: in force since Jul 1, 2009
9.
Notaries Public Act, SS 1978, c N-8
Consolidated Statutes of Saskatchewan — Saskatchewan
Current version: in force since Oct 1, 1991
10.
Notaries and Commissioners Act, RSNS 1989, c 312
Consolidated Statutes of Nova Scotia — Nova Scotia
cited by 2 cases
Current version: in force since Aug 26, 2005

(Links available here)

This review took less than ten minutes. Not one piece of legislation supports your claim in any way.

You lied to people.

 

[FreemanMenard]

Rights and powers of members
18 A member enrolled and in good standing may do the following:

(a) draw instruments relating to property which are intended, permitted or required to be registered, recorded or filed in a registry or other public office, contracts, charter parties and other mercantile instruments in British Columbia;
(b) draw and supervise the execution of wills
(i) by which the testator directs the testator's estate to be distributed immediately on death,
(ii) that provide that if the beneficiaries named in the will predecease the testator, there is a gift over to alternative beneficiaries vesting immediately on the death of the testator, or
(iii) that provide for the assets of the deceased to vest in the beneficiary or beneficiaries as members of a class not later than the date when the beneficiary or beneficiaries or the youngest of the class attains majority;
(c) attest or protest all commercial or other instruments brought before the member for attestation or public protestation;
(d) draw affidavits, affirmations or statutory declarations that may or are required to be administered, sworn, affirmed or made by the law of British Columbia, another province of Canada, Canada or another country;
(e) administer oaths;
(e.1) draw instruments for the purposes of the Representation Agreement Act;
(e.2) draw instruments relating to health care for the purposes of making advance directives, as defined in the Health Care (Consent) and Care Facility (Admission) Act;
(e.3) draw instruments for the purposes of the Power of Attorney Act;
(f) perform the duties authorized by an Act.

What part of 'perform the duties authorized by an Act' do you not understand? Did you wish to add to it? You know, in order to try and limit their powers?

 

[Garrison]

Oh but there are near magical ones which do compel them to pay, regardless of their consent?

If you regard, 'you will be thrown in jail if you don't pay up' as magic words then yes I suppose there are.

Being a Freeman is about accepting responsibility,

And of course the Freeman philosophy you espouse is the opposite of accepting responsibility, its ducking out on your bills and leaving society to pick up the tab.

and realizing there are no magical words either way, just logic and reason.

Logic and reason are wonderful, when are you planning to start applying them to the jumble of nonsense that is your Freeman philosophy?

I guess to you, those things must seem magical and mystical, eh?

Well given your apparent lack of understanding of logic, reason, and responsibility, they certainly must seem so to you, however most of the rest of the people posting in this thread seem to have a fair grasp of them, thanks for asking.

 

[FreemanMenard]

If you regard, 'you will be thrown in jail if you don't pay up' as magic words then yes I suppose there are.

Without consent I call that extortion.

And of course the Freeman philosophy you espouse is the opposite of accepting responsibility, its ducking out on your bills and leaving society to pick up the tab.

Starwman argument anyone?

Logic and reason are wonderful, when are you planning to start applying them to the jumble of nonsense that is your Freeman philosophy?

Ad Hominem anyone?

Well given your apparent lack of understanding of logic, reason, and responsibility, they certainly must seem so to you, however most of the rest of the people posting in this thread seem to have a fair grasp of them, thanks for asking.

Opinion only.

Yawn....