Road Rage in the Southland

[Skeptic Ginger]

Motorcycle Accidents: Lane Splitting - If an accident occurs when a motorcycle is lane splitting, who is at fault?

Lane splitting is prime fodder for accidents due to the close proximity of the cars to the motorcycle, the reduced space to maneuver, and the fact that the cars don't anticipate that a vehicle will be passing them in slowed or stopped traffic.

Which is what I said.

If an accident happens while a motorcycle is lane splitting, there's a good chance that fault for the accident will be attributed to the motorcycle rider. If the insurance adjuster or court finds that the motorcyclist's carelessness was a substantial cause of the accident, the rider is out of luck when it comes to recovering damages.

California is Only State to Allow Lane-Splitting, But Doesn’t Track Related Accidents

The practice is illegal in every state in the U.S. except California, however, the NBC Bay Area Investigative Unit discovered that it’s nearly impossible to make a determination on how safe or unsafe the maneuver currently is across the state because California does not track how often accidents involve lane-splitting....

“Lane-splitting riders often put themselves closer to other vehicles than they otherwise would,” the study found. “This proximity reduces the time riders have to identify and react to changes in the behaviors of other motorists.”...

Since lane-splitting is not an official violation in the state’s vehicle code, Starkey believes there is no reason to track the information.
He admits, however, lane splitting can certainly play a role in an accident.
“It could be a contributing factor,” he said. “Sure.”

TX has no law specifically addressing lane-splitting.

Under current Texas laws, an officer can pull over a motorcyclist for lane splitting and hand out a citation for reckless driving or a similar infraction. All current vehicle laws apply to motorcyclists. They’re responsible for passing in appropriate locations and driving within one lane (except in limited circumstances, including when avoiding hazards or following construction signs). If a motorcyclist chooses to lane split and has an accident, he or she will share at least part of the fault.

So the data supports the fact rider injuries are less if you are in a lane splitting crash than if you are plowed into from behind or a car turns in front of you.

But there is not a lot of data on whether said rider passing close to a vehicle and perhaps in the part of the driver's blind spot the driver doesn't know to check is a cause of accidents or not. Intuitively I would say yes as the default position unless more data comes along to dispute that.

 

[3point14]

The suggestion to pursue critical thinking might just be some advice the adviser needs to also take. Just sayin'

Alright, ease up a second and read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. What you did - Go look for evidence, come up with a reasoned and, on the face of it, evidenced argument is the absolute opposite of the post I quoted, which was this:

I will never believe that lane splitting is safe. That's absurd.

A statement that allows no evidences to be brought and no arguments to be reasoned. A flat 'I will never believe', is the antithesis of critical thinking.


But hey, you knock yourself out doing, er, whatever it was you thought you were doing.

 

[BStrong]

CHP officer on the crash and the video

California Highway Patrol officers on Monday were still searching for the motorcyclist involved in a shocking Southern California freeway crash that went viral on video last week.

The video, taken on a Santa Clarita freeway shows a motorcyclist at high speed kicking a car in the carpool lane, causing the car to swerve and smash into the center divider in flames, then careen into a truck, knocking the truck upside down, causing moderate injuries.

We talked with CHP Officer Eric Priessman about what the video shows and who might be at fault. Here are his answers, paraphrased:


http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/transportation/back-seat-driver/article158292154.html

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Alright, ease up a second and read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. What you did - Go look for evidence, come up with a reasoned and, on the face of it, evidenced argument is the absolute opposite of the post I quoted, which was this:

A statement that allows no evidences to be brought and no arguments to be reasoned. A flat 'I will never believe', is the antithesis of critical thinking.

But hey, you knock yourself out doing, er, whatever it was you thought you were doing.

I understood your criticism of Noah. I noted his intuitive reasoning was stated as an absolute and it should not have been which is why I noted: "perhaps should have had the caveat, 'unless there is convincing research to the contrary'."

You also referred to your gut reaction to the problem as "research" when it was no such thing. Research can use anecdotes if it collects anecdotal evidence systematically and avoids assumptions of motives not actually tested.

My anecdotal research suggests that people are simply upset that someone gets to travel faster than them in traffic.

These people are children. They may look like grown ups, but 'he's now in front of me, wawawa' is not a grown up argument.

I didn't see you actually looking at the evidence presented in the thread about the safety of lane splitting.

Sorry to single you out. I wanted to address all the people in the thread citing research and drawing a conclusion that went beyond what the research supported and your post was a convenient one to reply to.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

California Highway Patrol officers on Monday were still searching for the motorcyclist involved in a shocking Southern California freeway crash that went viral on video last week.

The video, taken on a Santa Clarita freeway shows a motorcyclist at high speed kicking a car in the carpool lane, causing the car to swerve and smash into the center divider in flames, then careen into a truck, knocking the truck upside down, causing moderate injuries.

We talked with CHP Officer Eric Priessman about what the video shows and who might be at fault. Here are his answers, paraphrased:


http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/transportation/back-seat-driver/article158292154.html

I'm not impressed that he conveniently doesn't condemn the road rage act of kicking the Nissan. Regardless of all the "we don't knows" he cites (and that I agree with), he fails to condemn the road rage act for which there was no excuse regardless.

 

[BStrong]

I'm not impressed that he conveniently doesn't condemn the road rage act of kicking the Nissan. Regardless of all the "we don't knows" he cites (and that I agree with), he fails to condemn the road rage act for which there was no excuse regardless.

The individual CHP officer isn't in a position to endorse or condemn the actions of the driver or rider at this point in the investigation.

The CHP is acting as an investigator, not a finder of fact.

From my civilian blowhard chair I can state that what I observed in the video was incredibly stupid on the rider's part, and there may have been evil intent on the driver's part.

Past that, I have no better knowledge than anyone else who wasn't an eyeball witness to the incident.

 

[casebro]

The individual CHP officer isn't in a position to endorse or condemn the actions of the driver or rider at this point in the investigation.

The CHP is acting as an investigator, not a finder of fact.

From my civilian blowhard chair I can state that what I observed in the video was incredibly stupid on the rider's part, and there may have been evil intent on the driver's part.

Past that, I have no better knowledge than anyone else who wasn't an eyeball witness to the incident.

Upthread was a bit from the guy who took the video. IIRC, somebody was weaving through traffic, and the Nissan nearly took out the bike. I would blame it all on the weaver.

I changed lane once on a main street. Got a horn honk and a look of hatred to frost my soul. Geeze, I usual pay attention, there was nobody there a second ago, where did the gal in the red convertible come from? I stay in my lane and watch her change lanes five more time before I pass her. She is waiting in the left turn lane at the corner a 1/4 mile up the road. PV drivers can be dicks too.

 

[BStrong]

Upthread was a bit from the guy who took the video. IIRC, somebody was weaving through traffic, and the Nissan nearly took out the bike. I would blame it all on the weaver.

I changed lane once on a main street. Got a horn honk and a look of hatred to frost my soul. Geeze, I usual pay attention, there was nobody there a second ago, where did the gal in the red convertible come from? I stay in my lane and watch her change lanes five more time before I pass her. She is waiting in the left turn lane at the corner a 1/4 mile up the road. PV drivers can be dicks too.

No objection.

Had the rider simply ran, no property damage oir injured persons this would be a completely different discussion.

Unfortunately Mr. Ego took over (imo) and he was going to show that stupid cage driver he "shouldn't **** with Me!"

Guy almost got ended over it. Pretty damn stupid.

 

[casebro]

No objection.

Had the rider simply ran, no property damage oir injured persons this would be a completely different discussion.

Unfortunately Mr. Ego took over (imo) and he was going to show that stupid cage driver he "shouldn't **** with Me!"

Guy almost got ended over it. Pretty damn stupid.

I think you, as much as anybody, knows what "hot temper" actions are. I don't know the legal ramifications of the rider kicking the car, but IF the Nissan was the weaver, I'll give the rider a free ride. And I don't like bikes on the roads. Bikes is for dirt or tracks.

I also think the CHP is fiibbing about "we just want his side of the story before proceeding with a case". If I was him I would be re-styling my bike already.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Every car driver who hates lane splitting?

I tell them to picture riding behind me at 20 MPH when I'm on my bicycle, and overtake ONLY when the entire next lane is clear ... this puts it in perspective.

 

[BStrong]

I think you, as much as anybody, knows what "hot temper" actions are. I don't know the legal ramifications of the rider kicking the car, but IF the Nissan was the weaver, I'll give the rider a free ride. And I don't like bikes on the roads. Bikes is for dirt or tracks.

I also think the CHP is fiibbing about "we just want his side of the story before proceeding with a case". If I was him I would be re-styling my bike already.

Oh yeah.

It's the ugliest of things we get into, and I'm convinced that the root is ego and not actual risk to life or limb.

The example I posted citing the road rage murder of Julius Long is one example - **** Yous were exchanged and the guy that murdered Julius was in -0- danger when it went down. The road rage case over the weekend where a young woman was murdered is more of the same.

I understand anger, I understand fear. The difference in my pov is I just want to get away from someone who I perceive as a threat and my ego is not involved. If I need to use force, I'll recognize it as it develops, and the only thing that will make me use force is if I don't have the opportunity or ability to escape - no ego - I just want to live.

I believe this is a result of my experiences in the real world where I've seen some ugly things and know what the consequences are across the board - I've hugged more than one widow at a funeral that lost her husband when they were killed in the line of duty, usually over something that shouldn't cost an officer their life. I've seen the results on victims of violence and their families.

I'd like to avoid all of it in my personal life.

The rider will in all likelihood skate on this deal absent running their mouth, or surrendering to authorities. With the huge number of hit and runs that people skate on in California it's no surprise - a rider was killed this am in the east bay area where an 18 wheeler collected him and did not stop:

http://kron4.com/2017/07/03/chp-looking-for-big-rig-that-fled-deadly-hit-and-run-in-san-pablo/

The fatal crash, the second on that same stretch of westbound I-80 this morning, was reported at 6:22 a.m. in the area of El Portal Drive.

A big-rig described as a yellow truck with a white trailer made an unsafe lane change and hit the motorcyclist, who then hit another car before being thrown onto the roadway, CHP Officer Matthew Hamer said.

He was pronounced dead at the scene.

The victim has been identified as 35-year-old Nicholas Brown, of Fairfield.