Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

"all but outright stating that they are organizing specifically to murder others"

The Fascists don't discriminate between looters and protesters.

They rarely bother to distinguish either from "people going about their business" either, for that matter. But yeah, anyone with a basic understanding of English should understand what "Antifa is in for a bad time if LEO or the National Guard doesn't show up September 26th" means, when stated by the leader of a fascistic street gang organized by a white supremacist for the specific purpose of choking "trannies" and the like.

Is this "making stuff up", or is it opinion? It's not like similar opinions don't get thrown about expressed with similar certainty going the other way. Two wrongs don't make a right etc... but resisting it is a losing battle.

The key difference, of course, is that police, far-right militants, and the like are routinely caught saying that they outright desire violence. In public. Sometimes in campaign rallies. For example:



I think the idea is that federal help has been refused, so police have to handle it, Democrat politicians then side with the rioters if they complain about the police, and when the police do arrest rioters they are released by the DA. There is a perception that these governors, mayors and DAs have created a situation where there are no meaningful consequences for rioting and nothing meaningful is being done to stop the rioting. This isn't an isolated issue of the policy of one incompetent DA that we can account for by incompetence, is it? There is widespread reluctance to actively try to restore order.

The main problem in Portland is that the "federal help" consisted of unidentified goons that ran around beating and kidnapping people without explanation, and who only managed to heighten tensions to a tremendous level, to the point where mothers, old men with leaf blowers, and a host of lawyers, nurses, and so on ended up marching night after night.

Well, that and Dolt 45's open love of, and policies endorsing, violent white supremacism. That doesn't help either.
 
The main problem in Portland is that the "federal help" consisted of unidentified goons that ran around beating and kidnapping people without explanation, and who only managed to heighten tensions to a tremendous level, to the point where mothers, old men with leaf blowers, and a host of lawyers, nurses, and so on ended up marching night after night.
Supposing that that is a true and fair representation of what happened, what is the strategy of the governor, mayor, DA to bring the riots to an end? Again, the idea is that they don't want anybody federal going after the rioters, they won't support their own police going after the rioters, and if the police do arrest the rioters they let them go. They tried to burn down Ted Wheeler's condominium. What is the plan to stop this?
 
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Example #253 of right wing projection: Antifa Airlines.

The idea that antifa super soldiers are flying around the country to start fires and riots is absurd. However, it is absolutely true that certain die-hard members of the Proud Boys tour the country looking for venues for political violence.

Alan Swinney, of Midland Texas, is regularly seen at Proud Boy events across the country. Besides being videod committing multiple assaults and brandishing a firearm in Portland, he has attended violent Proud Boy events in Philly and Providence. He used to crowdfund for his travel expenses, but I don't think any of the major platforms allow him to do so anymore.

Literally an armed agitator crowdfunding his expenses so he can travel the country sewing violence.
 
3 members of the 11 person Portland police oversight board have resigned in protest of unchecked police brutality.

Three members of the city’s 11-person police oversight board have resigned — all in the span of 24 hours.

“The events of this past weekend were a tipping point for me,” wrote member Adam Green in his Wednesday resignation letter. “We continue to witness excessive force used by officers on the streets. Members of the media continue to be threatened. Armed Trump supporters are allowed to parade through downtown Portland while pointing guns at people that aren’t wearing Trump gear.

“These are just a few examples of a failed system with failed leadership. I can no longer support this system in any way.”

https://www.opb.org/article/2020/09/03/police-oversight-board-portland-resign/
 
Street medic seen on video being repeatedly punched in face by PPD riot cop has suffered a head injury. Police delayed his medical care for over 2 hours.

The video shows a lone riot cop running ahead of the skirmish line and tackling the street medic, who is a professional nurse, and repeatedly punching him in the head. During the scuffle, the beaten man knocks off the cops unstrapped helmet with an open, outstretched hand. He is being charged with felony assault of a police officer for this "punch".

https://www.opb.org/article/2020/09/03/injured-protest-medic-had-to-wait-for-medical-treatment-after-being-tackled-punched-by-portland-police/

Cox says he went more than two hours without medical attention before paramedics evaluated him.

“They noted that I was lethargic. And they noted that I was having trouble walking straight. They told the police officers that they couldn’t clear me to be arrested, or to be taken to jail without a head CT, or taken to the hospital at the least,” Cox said Wednesday. “The police actually got angry with them about that.”
 
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Street medic seen on video being repeatedly punched in face by PPD riot cop has suffered a head injury. Police delayed his medical care for over 2 hours.

The video shows a lone riot cop running ahead of the skirmish line and tackling the street medic, who is a professional nurse, and repeatedly punching him in the head. During the scuffle, the beaten man knocks off the cops unstrapped helmet with an open, outstretched hand. He is being charged with felony assault of a police officer for this "punch".

https://www.opb.org/article/2020/09/03/injured-protest-medic-had-to-wait-for-medical-treatment-after-being-tackled-punched-by-portland-police/

In a normal, democratic country, that police officer would be out of a job right now, as well as charged with felony assault.
 
Supposing that that is a true and fair representation of what happened, what is the strategy of the governor, mayor, DA to bring the riots to an end? Again, the idea is that they don't want anybody federal going after the rioters, they won't support their own police going after the rioters, and if the police do arrest the rioters they let them go. They tried to burn down Ted Wheeler's condominium. What is the plan to stop this?

The truth is, this has been pushed well beyond the breaking point. Wheeler has no quick-fix solution, because there simply isn't a possible one - it's like deliberately smashing your own kneecap with a sledgehammer, and then demanding the doctor get you up and running immediately - it can't happen. What I'd do is tell police to show restraint, arrest *only* those directly responsible for violence, and revoke any permits for the Proud Boys rally.

And for reference, it'd be interesting to see if unidentified mercenary goons sent by an idiotic president and a fascistic Attorney General could be charged for what are obvious state-level crimes, such as kidnapping.

(For reference, the license revocation is what Antifa-related groups asked Charlottesville to do for the "Unite the Right" rally, while offering clear evidence of the attendees' violent plans. The city refused, the ACLU actually took the attendees' side, and the end result was a massive out-of-control brawl in the streets, three people dead, and dozens hospitalized.)
 
The truth is, this has been pushed well beyond the breaking point. Wheeler has no quick-fix solution, because there simply isn't a possible one - it's like deliberately smashing your own kneecap with a sledgehammer, and then demanding the doctor get you up and running immediately - it can't happen. What I'd do is tell police to show restraint, arrest *only* those directly responsible for violence, and revoke any permits for the Proud Boys rally.

This sounds like it could devolve into a long and tedious legal battle. Much easier is just arresting known criminals like Alan Swinney.

The escalation of right wing violence at these protest is the result of a feedback loop in which right wingers have learned that police will not intervene when they obviously break the law.

There are clear leaders seen at these events and there are repeat offenders of violence that can be easily identified and arrested right now. While there are many that would be willing to risk legal problems, the threat of actual consequences would probably do a lot to thin out attendance at events explicitly organized with the goal of violent conflicts.
 
The police are not going to crack down on their own allies.

No, I don't think they are. For the people decrying violence, this should be their primary issue to address. The clear preference by the police to allow political violence by their ideological allies is a serious blow to the idea of a nonviolent civil discourse.

The alternative to police taking action is unsanctioned community defense. That might mean fascists getting shot dead in the streets, or intense gun fights between the two groups with lots of casualties. You can bet your ass the fash aren't only going to be carrying paintball guns and bear mace this time around.

If the police refuse to reign in their right wing allies, this is very likely going to happen. Nobody should be surprised when it does.
 
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Example #253 of right wing projection: Antifa Airlines.

The idea that antifa super soldiers are flying around the country to start fires and riots is absurd.

:D

696795f50f1821f1ca.jpg
 
The Police and White Militias Pt. 1 | Full Frontal (Sep. 3, 2020)

The Police and White Militias Pt. 2 | Full Frontal (Sep. 3, 2020)
 
That is a profound question, but it brings up many more questions.

- who decided that the shooting was 'unjustifiable'?

The original Broadway cast of “Oklahoma!”.

- how many people decided that the shooting was 'unjustifiable'?

Almost all of them. Celeste Holm was the only hold out.

- what percent of people decided that the shooting was 'unjustifiable'?

102%. Although we didn’t get Celeste’s vote, the extra enthusiasm from Howard Da Silva pushed us over the top.

- how solid was the evidence when an undeclared number of people decided that the shooting was 'unjustifiable'?

Who wants Jell-O!

So many unknown questions, and than to suddenly decide that the shooting was acceptable!! What a dramatic turn of events!

And on top of that to have a family member involved!

Certainly a great script for a soap opera, but definitely not enough information to make a rational decision.

Somehow, I don’t think “rational” was your goal here.
 
Is this "making stuff up", or is it opinion? It's not like similar opinions don't get thrown about expressed with similar certainty going the other way. Two wrongs don't make a right etc... but resisting it is a losing battle.


I think the idea is that federal help has been refused, so police have to handle it, Democrat politicians then side with the rioters if they complain about the police, and when the police do arrest rioters they are released by the DA. There is a perception that these governors, mayors and DAs have created a situation where there are no meaningful consequences for rioting and nothing meaningful is being done to stop the rioting. This isn't an isolated issue of the policy of one incompetent DA that we can account for by incompetence, is it? There is widespread reluctance to actively try to restore order.


There's plenty of idiocy on every side and from every angle. People are celebrating news that people are dead in the streets of the USA, but it's ok because he was a "fash" anyway, A 17 year old kid is going away for life because he carried a gun to a nearby state and killed two people. Or.....maybe I shouldn't leap to conclusions.....maybe the real story is that a 17 year old kid was violently assaulted in the streets and had to resort to deadly force to save his own life.

A trial will decide which of those two things happened, at least in the official version, but which one of them is good? Oh, that's a relief. The other side is responsible.

As for the specific comment, it's just idiocy to think that elected officials are not only inciting violence, they are "purposefully" encouraging terrorism. I want to sit around that conference table in the Mayor's office or with the DA or wherever it is supposed to be happening. What would I see? "Bob, our terrorism numbers are way down. What can we do to meet our quota this month?"

One thing is for sure in America today. Those other guys sure are awful.
 
The man seen mourning the loss of his fascist friend was seen earlier at a protest gleefully proclaiming "I'm ready to start killing you mother *******" and showing off his paintball gun and holstered pistol to a crowd of protesters. Now he's giving interviews talking about what a nice and gentle patriot his dead bud was.

https://twitter.com/anniesuby/status/1301359453644550145



******* around:




Finding out:



A Portland Tribune reporter encountered Danielson and another Patriot Prayer member, Chandler Pappas, in the mall parking lot. The reporter photographed Pappas carrying a paintball gun and reported that both men carried tactical equipment.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/09/aaron-jay-danielson-had-tracked-portland-protests-he-was-near-home-after-a-pro-trump-rally-when-he-died.html

100% ok with dancing on this dead fascist's grave.

They'll be back, with more guns. I hope the people of Portland are ready to defend themselves again.
 
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Where they state they are going to murder others ? And what it has do with protestors ? Isn't this about riots and vandalism ? Do you think rioting and vandalism is protest ?

Yes. Someone once pointed out that a riot is the speech of those whose speech is unheard.
You have it backwards:
“Yes, the police shouldn’t be allowed to shoot unarmed people, but property damage is really bad.”
Is worlds away from, “we all know property damage is bad, but STOP ******* SHOOTING UNARMED BLACK MEN.”
 
There's plenty of idiocy on every side and from every angle. People are celebrating news that people are dead in the streets of the USA, but it's ok because he was a "fash" anyway, A 17 year old kid is going away for life because he carried a gun to a nearby state and killed two people. Or.....maybe I shouldn't leap to conclusions.....maybe the real story is that a 17 year old kid was violently assaulted in the streets and had to resort to deadly force to save his own life.

A pair of brothers where I grew up were both violent drug traffickers. Beat women, raped teenaged girls, etc. Eventually, one killed the other, and the cops couldn't ignore it, so he was hauled off to prison, when he rotted and died.

We called it a 2-for-1 special.

Once you pass a certain point, I genuinely no longer care if you're hauled off or killed. And we do, all to often, imprison people for petty crimes, tossing away both talen and money without cause...but some people gotta go, and it's all their own fault.

Murdered two people because someone threw a plastic bag at you? Buh-bye!

Joined a white supremacist gang and went rampaging through a city until someone shot you dead? Here's an alternative idea, and it's virtually free. Stay in your damn home and bitch about it online, like I'm doing. Nobody's busting shots in *my* direction.

A trial will decide which of those two things happened, at least in the official version, but which one of them is good? Oh, that's a relief. The other side is responsible.

To be fair...Very few people see any point in setting fires in buildings either - although this supposed fire that would burn down Wheeler's apartment building seems to have actually been a minor trash fire in the middle of the street. And I've said my piece about shooting off fireworks around people who've been dealing with police-fired explosives for months before - it can trigger PTSD, don't be a jerk.

But yeah, the guys ranting about how they're going to open fire, who then drive through cities opening fire on everyone? **** 'em.

As for the specific comment, it's just idiocy to think that elected officials are not only inciting violence, they are "purposefully" encouraging terrorism. I want to sit around that conference table in the Mayor's office or with the DA or wherever it is supposed to be happening. What would I see? "Bob, our terrorism numbers are way down. What can we do to meet our quota this month?"

I can easily see Dolt 45 doing exactly that, mostly because he's a willfully ignorant sociopathic white supremacist. I wouldn't say the same of the majority of US politicians, regardless of political party. Granted, republicans look like a pack of cowards groveling in front of Cheeto Benito's Twitter Armada and his death cult worshippers. But they're the ones that walked into the lion's den, so I'm hoping the lions are satisfied with eating them.
 

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