Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

Emily's Cat said:
The DID stop using LTL approaches quite a while back, and the night-time violence did not stop.

They HAVE acknowledged the right of people to assemble, they haven't been acting against the day-time protesters at all.

And the crowds are PROTECTING The dangerous elements at night, and SHELTERING them from being arrested.

This isn't a lone crazy person out there causing problems. It's a large group of people assembling every night and committing crimes unabated.

I get your anger at the police, I really do. What I don't get is your complete disregard for every other citizen put at risk by the actions of these criminals every night since this began.You're not there, you're not experiencing it... and you're perfectly content to let it happen with no care or consideration for any of the innocent people involved
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The bravery of being out of range.
Infuriating to some.
 
Emily's Cat said:
The DID stop using LTL approaches quite a while back, and the night-time violence did not stop.

They HAVE acknowledged the right of people to assemble, they haven't been acting against the day-time protesters at all.

And the crowds are PROTECTING The dangerous elements at night, and SHELTERING them from being arrested.

This isn't a lone crazy person out there causing problems. It's a large group of people assembling every night and committing crimes unabated.

I get your anger at the police, I really do. What I don't get is your complete disregard for every other citizen put at risk by the actions of these criminals every night since this began. What I don't get is your complete nonchalance about collateral damage. You're not there, you're not experiencing it... and you're perfectly content to let it happen with no care or consideration for any of the innocent people involved.
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The 1st amendment still works after sundown.

It's an indisputable fact that the police have been targeting people for arrest and violence who have not committed any crime besides failure to disperse. They make no attempt to narrow the use of force to alleged dangerous elements, but rather rely on clearing the streets through tear gas and beatings.


What's the path forward here? You seem to believe stopping heavy handed repression by the police would lead to more violence. The current level is doing little to stop the unrest. Does this situation just continue indefinitely?
 
BStrong said:
Should that be the case, a 240 and a greenlight will solve the problem ;)
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Lord knows the cops want that, so desperately. For now they'll just have to satisfy themselves with deliberately blinding people with less lethal weapons.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Why? Why do you laud and advocate for setting buildings on fire and destroying property? What possible justification for this could you have?
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Because when you're fighting (LARP'ing) the tyrannical fascist evil empire anything goes. Property and people have no value.

It's akin to being a jihadi - any tenet of the prophet can be violated w/o celestial consequence.

As an old fart, watching what passes today for police/government fascist tyranny is positively tame - wake me when the cops get out the barbed wire wrapped riot batons - even the old stand-bys the fire hoses and K-9's are no longer in evidence.

It's a pity some of today's brave street fighters couldn't be transported back in time to the Democratic convention in '68 so they could get a taste of police tac squads w/o restraints.
 
Shadowdweller said:
Here's another "harmless little trash fire". For you clueless masses who feel that you have a right to judge the severity of damage in a city where you don't reside - that's the Multnomah Building. The Multnomah Building houses the county commission, which does things like enforce building codes, make sure schools get (local) funding, keeps homeless shelters open, handles the city's Covid response team...in addition to (the administrative side of) the local court system, which are all merely tools of police brutality, yes?
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don't forget marriage licenses. It should be noted that there were no police anywhere nearby when this happened. This was not a response to any sort of police misbehavior. The Bulwark article was correct "The Violence IS the Point" and "The main thing to note about the resurgent violence is that there is no plan or program to it." The apologists making excuses are deluding themselves with fantiasies if they find meaning and purpose for some admiral purpose in these actions or if they just see this as a "response" to police brutality.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I get your anger at the police, I really do. What I don't get is your complete disregard for every other citizen put at risk by the actions of these criminals every night since this began. What I don't get is your complete nonchalance about collateral damage. You're not there, you're not experiencing it... and you're perfectly content to let it happen with no care or consideration for any of the innocent people involved.
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Thank you for saying this, I really appreciate it. This is exactly right.
 
That 'complete disregard' is because people, not necessarily you, but often you, are implying that EVERY SINGLE PERSON out protesting is a criminal. They're all rampaging and lighting fires and smashing windows, as soon as they pick up that placard with words. It's very few, the people protesting are trying to stop them, because they know FULL WELL that the people out doing crimes and using the protests as cover are going to be the excuse that gets them all beaten, arrested, maybe killed, and THEN PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE GOING TO WRITE THEM OFF AS ALL BEING CRIMINALS. Berate protesters and everyone saying "hey, maybe we shouldn't be conflating protesters with rioters" by saying "why are you disregarding the safety of citizens put at risk by the actions of these criminals every night" when those citizens are at risk because the national narrative is that THEY'RE CRIMINALS AND DESERVE WHAT THEY GET. Maybe they don't? Maybe realize that protesting doesn't make someone a criminal, and watch to see who does some criming and go stop them? Maybe be a human being for once? But that's too inconvenient. Silence them all, then the streets will be safe. Emptier, but safe. For whoever's left alive.
 
Silly Green Monkey said:
That 'complete disregard' is because people, not necessarily you, but often you, are implying that EVERY SINGLE PERSON out protesting is a criminal.
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Actually, no, this isn't at all true. Nobody in this thread has implied that it's every person. In fact, I think those of us opposed to the night-time violence have taken pains to make it clear that we're not talking about the organized protesters, we're not talking about the day-time marches. We're not even talking about all of the people out at night. We know very well that it's a small segment of people.

On the other hand, this persistent need to demonize my (and portlandatheist's) point of view on this by repeating the false accusation that we think it's everyone is both verifiably wrong and a distraction. You are giving cover to the criminals who are setting buildings on fire.

Your entire diatribe is misplaced.
 
Vandals and looters are planted agents to discredit the movement.

Those decrying the vandalizing and looting are boot-licking apologists for state oppression.

If you video a bunch of white kids breaking windows, you are endangering the lives of black organizers.

If you avoid filming faces of black organizers on peaceful marches, you are giving aid and comfort to terrorists.

These and many other absurdities is why I stopped doing citizen journalism of civil unrest. That and calmly explaining the full context of a situation doesn't generate as much viewership as screaming epithets at 100 dB.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Vandals and looters are planted agents to discredit the movement.

Those decrying the vandalizing and looting are boot-licking apologists for state oppression.

If you video a bunch of white kids breaking windows, you are endangering the lives of black organizers.

If you avoid filming faces of black organizers on peaceful marches, you are giving aid and comfort to terrorists.

These and many other absurdities is why I stopped doing citizen journalism of civil unrest. That and calmly explaining the full context of a situation doesn't generate as much viewership as screaming epithets at 100 dB.
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I'm really glad that last paragraph was in there. My eyes were getting bigger and bigger stepping through the prior statements! :D
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Vandals and looters are planted agents to discredit the movement.

Those decrying the vandalizing and looting are boot-licking apologists for state oppression.

If you video a bunch of white kids breaking windows, you are endangering the lives of black organizers.

If you avoid filming faces of black organizers on peaceful marches, you are giving aid and comfort to terrorists.

These and many other absurdities is why I stopped doing citizen journalism of civil unrest. That and calmly explaining the full context of a situation doesn't generate as much viewership as screaming epithets at 100 dB.
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A lot of calmly stated falsehoods. Decry all you like, but if that's all you do, if that's all you mention about the protests, if those are the only people you focus on, what good are you? What good does focusing on a tiny subset of people, who are enemies of the people around them (not all of the violent ones were plants, but a lot of them were) do other than indicate that those people are the most important part? Even the statement of "all are plants" is an attempt to discredit the police work that showed that yes, some are plants. Either all are, or none are? No, some are. The proper thing is to arrest them, and not touch people who aren't them. That is where the police/feds are failing, and that is what you apologize for.
 
Silly Green Monkey said:
A lot of calmly stated falsehoods. Decry all you like, but if that's all you do, if that's all you mention about the protests, if those are the only people you focus on, what good are you? What good does focusing on a tiny subset of people, who are enemies of the people around them (not all of the violent ones were plants, but a lot of them were) do other than indicate that those people are the most important part? Even the statement of "all are plants" is an attempt to discredit the police work that showed that yes, some are plants. Either all are, or none are? No, some are. The proper thing is to arrest them, and not touch people who aren't them. That is where the police/feds are failing, and that is what you apologize for.
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I ran into those attitudes a lot and that's why I stopped (well, the delivery frequently being in violently hostile form helped).
 
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