Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

Right-wing rioters assaulted police with mace, broke building windows, and breached the building security, and disrupted the legislature while it was in session.

If the rioters continue assaults on people, attacks on the building itself, or even if they were to escalate with direct actions like first-degree arson, let's hope that the police do not do the unconscionable and the diabolical act of putting up a temporary fence between the building and the rioters (even possibly illegally blocking a bike lane in the process) in order to protect the people, the property, and the process of government like they did at the Hatfield federal building in Portland to the absolute shock and horror of Suburban Turkey and others. Fortunately, and I mean this sincerely, it won't have to come to that in Salem.
 
Thermal said:
Do you find it notable that people thoroughly enjoy a line of work that delivers as promised? Cuz I don't. That's my expectation. Would you find it similarly notable that a cook enjoys cooking?
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Supposedly, violence is meant to be a means to an end in policing.
To torture the metaphor, it would be like expecting a cook to enjoy scraping the grill clean at the end of the night. If the grill could feel pain. And maybe it's brown?

There are possible noble sides to policing and a view that the use of violence should be a rare last resort to maintaining order. Violence is not necessarily central to policing in quite the way cooking is to cooking.

I'm not surprised that police enjoy violence, but that doesn't mean it's not notable. Police and many of their supporters will vociferously deny that's what they like about the job. As much as "everyone knows it and it's obvious" there still is some merit mainting evidence of something commonly denied or minimized.
 
trustbutverify said:
What conflicting information are you referring to?
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If you are talking about the Nation Of Islam.not much to talk about. They are bunch of racists and bigots., period. They might not actually commit violence ,but the rhetoric si often disgusting.
They are known for Anti Semitism, though with their "white devils" rhetoric it's a case of they hate Jews slightly more then they hate whites in generral.
I thinn there being a Bizarro version of a white supremist group is pretty accurate description.
BTW NOI has NO standing whatsoever in the Muslim world. They are considerd a bunch of crazies who are hopelessly distorting the teachings of Islam.
 
dudalb said:
If you are talking about the Nation Of Islam.not much to talk about. They are bunch of racists and bigots., period. They might not actually commit violence ,but the rhetoric si often disgusting.
They are known for Anti Semitism, though with their "white devils" rhetoric it's a case of they hate Jews slightly more then they hate whites in generral.
I thinn there being a Bizarro version of a white supremist group is pretty accurate description.
BTW NOI has NO standing whatsoever in the Muslim world. They are considerd a bunch of crazies who are hopelessly distorting the teachings of Islam.
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I'm well acquainted with the NOI. They did commit at least one act of violence, when they executed Malcolm X for jeopardizing their cash flow, and Farrakhan has been welcomed with open arms in multiple Muslim nations.
 
portlandatheist said:
Right-wing rioters assaulted police with mace, broke building windows, and breached the building security, and disrupted the legislature while it was in session.

If the rioters continue assaults on people, attacks on the building itself, or even if they were to escalate with direct actions like first-degree arson, let's hope that the police do not do the unconscionable and the diabolical act of putting up a temporary fence between the building and the rioters (even possibly illegally blocking a bike lane in the process) in order to protect the people, the property, and the process of government like they did at the Hatfield federal building in Portland to the absolute shock and horror of Suburban Turkey and others. Fortunately, and I mean this sincerely, it won't have to come to that in Salem.
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I don’t see how a temporary fence would stop right wing rioters hellbent on illegally entering a building to the point that they’re attacking police and breaking down doors, but sure... okay.
 
johnny karate said:
I don’t see how a temporary fence would stop right wing rioters hellbent on illegally entering a building to the point that they’re attacking police and breaking down doors, but sure... okay.
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Law enforcement and event planners using fences for the purpose of crowd control is one of the more profound and deepest mysteries of the universe. How have these autocracies been allowed to continued for so long?
 
Personally, I'm wondering what the "right-wing" view of police is supposed to be at all, aside from "please lets us rampage as we see fit, and stick to shooting the darkies at random", but that's just me.

(I'll freely grant that there is a very easy view of policing that's consistent with "small government" philosophy, but the guys repeatedly taped marching around with guns screaming, and yet also demanding mass violent crackdowns on Black Lives Matter, is definitely more in line with white supremacy than any sort of "small government".)

dudalb said:
If you are talking about the Nation Of Islam.not much to talk about. They are bunch of racists and bigots., period. They might not actually commit violence ,but the rhetoric si often disgusting.
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Well, yes, and I've said before that they would likely turn violent against jews, white people, and LGBT groups (who they often consider to be a Jewish perversion because of course they do), except they know full well they'd get slaughtered if they even tried it.

There's a reason why the few murders linked to the group are of black people who they view as betrayers. They're nonviolent and consistent with the law out of necessity and self-preservation.

But they do meet that low bar, and they have done a lot (that the US should have done all along) to provide aid, reform criminals, and the like.

The point is that the Moors aren't a NOI wannabe group - they're actually much goofier, and much more into crime at all levels.

(At this point, few people want to be like the NOI - a more or less dwindling and irrelevant group, to the point that many are surprised to learn that their leader is still alive)
 
portlandatheist said:
Law enforcement and event planners using fences for the purpose of crowd control is one of the more profound and deepest mysteries of the universe. How have these autocracies been allowed to continued for so long?
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I’m not sure what “autocracies” you’re taking about, but I still fail to see why you think crowd control measures would be useful against armed thugs trying to storm a building when locked doors and windows weren’t.
 
johnny karate said:
I’m not sure what “autocracies” you’re taking about, but I still fail to see why you think crowd control measures would be useful against armed thugs trying to storm a building when locked doors and windows weren’t.
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It's a jab about the fence that was put up around the federal building in Portland during the summer of unrest.

Strange that untold numbers of tear gas and other "less lethal" munitions could be expended to protect the sacred fence in Portland, but not when it comes to armed right wing extremists are breaking into a state building.

Yet again another example where the police show extreme restraint and prefer deescalation, so long as it's right wingers who are causing the disorder.

It's hard to imagine anyone but white right wingers getting such gentle treatment while trying to stage an armed invasion of a state house. BLM types would have been shot for less, and we have plenty of recent history to show that tear gas and other strong measures would have been deployed long before it got to the point of people kicking in a door.

Hey look, another event where Chandler Pappas is illegally and openly carrying a firearm. Pappas is the subject of an emergency protective order that prohibits him from possessing firearms after he brutally assaulted a member of his family. Weird that cops don't care that a very public leader and participant of multiple armed skirmishes seems to be blatantly violating a judge's order.

Looks like right wing extremists are getting the VIP treatment from police once again.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
It's a jab about the fence that was put up around the federal building in Portland during the summer of unrest.

Strange that untold numbers of tear gas and other "less lethal" munitions could be expended to protect the sacred fence in Portland, but not when it comes to armed right wing extremists are breaking into a state building.

Yet again another example where the police show extreme restraint and prefer deescalation, so long as it's right wingers who are causing the disorder.

It's hard to imagine anyone but white right wingers getting such gentle treatment while trying to stage an armed invasion of a state house. BLM types would have been shot for less, and we have plenty of recent history to show that tear gas and other strong measures would have been deployed long before it got to the point of people kicking in a door.

Hey look, another event where Chandler Pappas is illegally and openly carrying a firearm. Pappas is the subject of an emergency protective order that prohibits him from possessing firearms after he brutally assaulted a member of his family. Weird that cops don't care that a very public leader and participant of multiple armed skirmishes seems to be blatantly violating a judge's order.

Looks like right wing extremists are getting the VIP treatment from police once again.
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And from the media.

The people carrying out an armed incursion into a government building are politely referred to as “protesters” in most articles, sometimes in the same sentence in which their crimes are being described:

According to the Oregon State Police and multiple media reports, a group of armed protesters broke windows and stormed the capitol while the state legislature was in session on Monday.
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Later in the day, the protesters returned and tried to gain entry again, kicking in glass entryway doors, before police again repelled them.
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Source.

Protesting is a perfectly legal, constitutionally-protected activity. Calling a violent, lawless mob “protesters” in an article detailing their many crimes and acts of violence is like calling a guy who murdered his family a loving father and husband.

These thugs engaged in politically-motivated violence. Seems like “terrorist” would be a more apt descriptor.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
It's a jab about the fence that was put up around the federal building in Portland during the summer of unrest.

Strange that untold numbers of tear gas and other "less lethal" munitions could be expended to protect the sacred fence in Portland, but not when it comes to armed right wing extremists are breaking into a state building.

Yet again another example where the police show extreme restraint and prefer deescalation, so long as it's right wingers who are causing the disorder.

It's hard to imagine anyone but white right wingers getting such gentle treatment while trying to stage an armed invasion of a state house. BLM types would have been shot for less, and we have plenty of recent history to show that tear gas and other strong measures would have been deployed long before it got to the point of people kicking in a door.

Hey look, another event where Chandler Pappas is illegally and openly carrying a firearm. Pappas is the subject of an emergency protective order that prohibits him from possessing firearms after he brutally assaulted a member of his family. Weird that cops don't care that a very public leader and participant of multiple armed skirmishes seems to be blatantly violating a judge's order.

Looks like right wing extremists are getting the VIP treatment from police once again.
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Don't forget the sacred metal detectors, the sacred X-Ray machines, and the sacred door locks in addition to the sacred fence that are in place at this building. I'm sure the security personnel is there to protect these sacred things rather than use them for the safety of the occupants of the building and the functioning of the government.
 
In Washington state, Thurston County Prosecuting Attorney Elizabeth McMullen has declined to press charges against Forest Michael Machala, the far-right gunman who shot and nearly killed a counter-demonstrator during a fascist rally in Olympia on December 12. Machala’s attack was the second far-right shooting in Olympia in seven days. Thurston County Superior Court found probable cause for McMullen to file first-degree assault charges against Machala on December 14—yet she chose not to file them, letting the deadline elapse without doing anything.
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The charging documents state that Machala was arrested with a Glock handgun and two ten-round magazines. His Glock had a round in the chamber and seven rounds left in the magazine. Police found a single unfired round matching his bullets on the ground near the spot he was seen racking his gun in the video. Three different video angles capture Machala holding his gun immediately after the shot was fired. He was identified in the video and by witnesses as the shooter.
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White gunman who opened fire at a fascist rally and shot a black man in the back has not been charged, despite it being abundantly clear that he is the shooter.

https://crimethinc.com/2020/12/24/washington-prosecutors-refuse-to-charge-far-right-shooter-prosecutors-send-a-clear-message-inviting-more-fascist-murders

Cops and Klan, hand in hand.
 
The violent insurgency continues in Portland
Starbucks is leaving. They’re gone. They’re not gonna come back after this... we took our fences down thinking everything was quiet. Bad move.
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Oregonlive article on the violence
SuburbanTurkey must be living in absolute fear right now about the possibility that law enforcement might use a fence again to seperate the Molotov cocktail throwers and their targets.
 
I spoke too soon. The police did the unconscionable act of putting up a fence around the Justice Center. Arsonists and insurgents tried unsuccessfully to break into the Justice Center. It is time to clutch those pearls if you have them. It is amazing to me that people can see the attacks by right-wing fascists on the building in Salem for what it is with 100% clarity and be completely blind to the attacks on the justice center for what it is.
 
portlandatheist said:
I spoke too soon. The police did the unconscionable act of putting up a fence around the Justice Center. Arsonists and insurgents tried unsuccessfully to break into the Justice Center. It is time to clutch those pearls if you have them. It is amazing to me that people can see the attacks by right-wing fascists on the building in Salem for what it is with 100% clarity and be completely blind to the attacks on the justice center for what it is.
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Seems all the contempt of court findings are taking their toll. Never gassed the crowds last night.
 
Interesting article about neighborhood small businesses in the aftermath of riots:

Businesses Trying to Rebound After Unrest Face a Challenge: Not Enough Insurance

When people started burning down buildings in Kenosha after the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Aug. 23, Tony Farhan prayed that his electronics shop would be left alone.

The Farhans have struggled economically in recent years. Mr. Farhan, his wife and their four sons moved in with his parents while their savings went to one son’s health care. Mr. Farhan’s ambition for a better life was tied up in the shop. So were many of his family’s belongings. They couldn’t fit all the clothes and toys for their boys in the crowded house they shared with his parents, so they tucked things away into the shop storage room. “Half my house was in there,” said Mr. Farhan, 36, who grew up in Kenosha.

The shop, which sells cellphones, charging cords, headphones and speakers, was looted on the night Mr. Blake was shot and burned the next. So was his brother’s shoe and clothing shop next door. The apartment units upstairs burned with them, as did many other buildings in the working-class neighborhood of Uptown Kenosha, a historic and bustling multicultural neighborhood. Weeks later it remained a scene of char and rubble.

They have insurance, though they say it is not enough, and now they are tangling to get the money. But personal items they stored in the shops were not insured, they said. Mr. Farhan does not know how he will pay to replace his children’s winter clothes that were in a storage room.

“I have no job, and I’m using credit cards,” said Mr. Farhan, who is of Palestinian descent. “I’m going into debt, and I just got out of debt.”

Mr. Farhan’s brother Vinnie, 40, who had the shoe and clothing shop next door, said the logistics of wrestling the insurance companies and restarting his life were overwhelming. “People don’t see behind the scenes. I put everything into starting this business.”

In the units above the Farhans’ shops, all the tenants made it out alive, but several family pets died in the fires, the brothers said. One upstairs resident started an online fund-raiser the brothers highlighted: “My mom and I lost everything and our 2 cats and now my mom is homeless and I would like to try to raise money to help her with getting a place,” the tenant’s daughter, Ashley Powell, wrote on the GoFundMe page.
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(Portland Mayor) Wheeler wants the state Legislature to make it easier for law enforcement to investigate and track protest violence. Civil liberty groups will have questions.
https://www.opb.org/article/2021/01/01/new-years-protests-oregon/

Wheeler said the violence and vandalism had no clear political purposes. He blamed “violent antifa and anarchists” and described participants as largely white and young.

..
He also called on the state legislature to increase the penalties for people repeatedly found to have committed criminal destruction and vandalism and to give police more leeway to videotape demonstrators and “otherwise gather intelligence on these small groups of organized criminals.” That suggestion is sure to raise concerns among civil liberty groups.

Wheeler also wants people convicted of vandalizing businesses to be required to meet with owners and employees and to perform community service aimed at repairing damage they’ve caused.
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