Right-wing populism

[Tony]

rather than a knee-jerk reflex.

Of course you know all about knee-jerk reflexes:

The problem is this: the vast majority of Americans agree with the basic platform of the Democratic Party(as well as the basic points of the Republican Party of 25-30 years ago). Nearly no one agrees with the actual platform of far-right radicals. The difference is that Democrats felt awfully comfortable that the truth would be enough to sell obviously good programs and policy, while the far-right radicals know for a fact that they can't convince anyone by being straight with them. Therefore, the far-right created campaigns based on advertising, in order to sell their ideas in a sort of bait and switch. By turning language on its head, and disguising their real agenda, the far-right has conducted a culture war upon America. They do all sorts of creative things, like create multiple dummy "grassroots" organizations, so that they can pretend to be a populist movement. They lie without hesitation, because by the time a lie is tracked down, no one in this high-speed MTV world cares anymore.

Please continue your quest for legitimacy and recognition. It's providing me entertainment while at work.

 

[Luke T.]

The problem is this: the vast majority of Americans agree with the basic platform of the Democratic Party(as well as the basic points of the Republican Party of 25-30 years ago). Nearly no one agrees with the actual platform of far-right radicals. The difference is that Democrats felt awfully comfortable that the truth would be enough to sell obviously good programs and policy, while the far-right radicals know for a fact that they can't convince anyone by being straight with them. Therefore, the far-right created campaigns based on advertising, in order to sell their ideas in a sort of bait and switch. By turning language on its head, and disguising their real agenda, the far-right has conducted a culture war upon America. They do all sorts of creative things, like create multiple dummy "grassroots" organizations, so that they can pretend to be a populist movement. They lie without hesitation, because by the time a lie is tracked down, no one in this high-speed MTV world cares anymore.

So the Left is all about Truth and the American Way, while the Right is a bunch of Liars. And you expect rational, reasoned responses to this?

edited to ask: Since you mentioned it, please explain the connection between MTV and the Right. I can't wait.

 

[Sundog]

So the Left is all about Truth and the American Way, while the Right is a bunch of Liars. And you expect rational, reasoned responses to this?

Well, by definition, of course not.

 

[Luke T.]

Well, by definition, of course not.

Okay, since I am from the Right, and I always lie, I would like to take the opportunity to say the Left is right.

 

[Zero]

So the Left is all about Truth and the American Way, while the Right is a bunch of Liars. And you expect rational, reasoned responses to this?

Did you miss the part where I included mainstream Republicans? I specifically singled out far-right radicals as the target of most of my post, not mainstream Republicans. Do you think you can reply rationally with that little bit of clarification?

 

[Luke T.]

Did you miss the part where I included mainstream Republicans? I specifically singled out far-right radicals as the target of most of my post, not mainstream Republicans. Do you think you can reply rationally with that little bit of clarification?

Sure.

I think most voters are single-issue voters. And just try to nail down a politician, left or right, who will unequivically state his position on any issue. Abortion, gun control, etc.

As soon as a politician says he is against abortion, some reporter will immediately ask, "But what about the poor victims of incest or rape?" as if that is what is behind the million-plus abortions going on. In response to this question, politicians begin to equivocate.

Gun control? Forget about it. There are so many shades of gun control. No one is for 100%, you should be able to buy any gun you want at Walmart without a background check, kind of freedom, except for the Libertarians, maybe. And no electable politicians are for 0%, nobody should be able to buy a gun, even if an impregnating rapist uncle is kicking in the door, kind of restrictions.

Who looks up a politician's voting record? Hardly anyone. They rely on his competitor's ads to see how he voted on certain issues. Negative ads.

So people get frustrated. It's hard enough to figure out where a guy stands on one issue, never mind several. So they stay home and don't vote.

About the only clear issue left is taxes. Or it has the appearance of being clear. Democrats say they will raise taxes, Republicans say they won't. Nobody talks clearly about what they will do with the money. It is virtually untraceable once it leaves your paycheck and goes to Washington.

So people vote on how they feel the current guy is doing. "Are you better off than you were four years ago?"

 

[hammegk]

Ummm...the transmission is coming in clearer, but it seems to be in a foreign language.

* plonk *

It's at 2 again. I'll catch you in a few weeks, if you're still here.

 

[Zero]

I'd have to disagree with you slightly Luke, because you left out the "pie in the sky" factor. There is a certain amount of "if we change x, then y will happen, with little evidence backing it. At least the Democrats and an increasing number of dissatisfied Republicans admit that increased needs in our current situation will likely lead to higher taxation, or at least a scaling back of tax cuts. This administration, on the other hand, ignores all of that, and promises the "pie in the sky" notions that deficits will magically disappear, possibly through banning gay marriage(I'm not to clear on this one, and seemingly neither is Bush).

In any event, if someone suggests sacrifice and a tightening of our collective belt, and the other promises that we can spend and spend, and it will all work out, which way are people likely to go?

 

[Sundog]

Sure.

I think most voters are single-issue voters.

Do you really think that's true? I think it may be more true of the right than the left. And the danger in that is, of course, that people leave themselves open to be manipulated by fear tactics and such. Look at the number of righties who are SCREAMINGLY insistent that they will never never never give up their guns - and then step back and see what a foolish side-issue this is compared to the REAL problems. What does Bubba care that the plant closed, as long as he can keep his guns? If you can keep Emmy Lou all fired up about abortions, she won't notice that she's losing her home because she lost her job.

The powers on the right love to keep people fired up about phony issues so they won't notice the Big Lie: that THEY aren't getting any of that power and money, it's the fat cats at the top of the ladder. A brilliant tactic, I have to admit.

My impression of voters on the left today is not of single-issue voters; it's a very broad sense that this country has been on the wrong course for 30 years and a rejection of EVERYTHING on the right. That's why you see overreaching statements like this: many people are coming around to the view that the right is basically, fundamentally wrong about many things.

 

[Tony]

What's up Sundog, long time no see.

The powers on the right love to keep people fired up about phony issues so they won't notice the Big Lie: that THEY aren't getting any of that power and money, it's the fat cats at the top of the ladder.

So preserving constitutional rights is now a phony issue?


The biggest lie that MOST politicians perpetrate, which you have bought, is that they actually care about empowering you. Do you honestly think "left-wing" politicians care about getting you power and money anymore than "right-wing" politicians? Excuse me while I laugh my a$$ off.

 

[Zero]

Be fair, Sundog...some of the basic ideas that mainstream Republicans have are perfectly reasonable in principle. There ARE people who scream that anything emanating from any Republican is wrong, a lie, or both; those people are just as bad as the ones who do it from the other side.

 

[Sundog]

Be fair, Sundog...some of the basic ideas that mainstream Republicans have are perfectly reasonable in principle. There ARE people who scream that anything emanating from any Republican is wrong, a lie, or both; those people are just as bad as the ones who do it from the other side.

Which begs the obvious question.

 

[corplinx]

Let me say I had no idea comic sans was so intensely detested. Now I feel like a complete e-loser/cyber-virgin/n00b.

Welp, comic sans ms was from the period that Word was more of a small office product rather than used for professional document publishing (some say it still is). Nowadays, you have "designed" fonts like verdana, tahoma, etc.

Comic Sans MS is a relic. If you really want to tick someone off, design a web page and make it the main font.

 

[hammegk]

The powers on the right love to keep people fired up about phony issues so they won't notice the Big Lie: that THEY aren't getting any of that power and money, it's the fat cats at the top of the ladder. A brilliant tactic, I have to admit.

Let me fix that for you:

"The powers-that-be love to keep people fired up about phony issues so they won't notice the Big Lie: that THEY aren't getting any of that power and money, it's the fat cats at the top of the ladder."

A brilliant tactic indeed, why democracies fail, and why our republic is in troubling -- perhaps fatal -- times. Do you predict fascism or socialism for the US?

 

[Sundog]

What's up Sundog, long time no see.





So preserving constitutional rights is now a phony issue?

Yeah, Tony. You're being manipulated. Who has ever actually, REALLY tried to take your guns away? No one, of course. You can have them for all I care. You're being filled with the fear of those Awful Gun-Registering Leftists so you'll think everything we say is automatically wrong.

Wake up, buddy! It's a shell game.

 

[Sundog]

Let me fix that for you:

"The powers-that-be love to keep people fired up about phony issues so they won't notice the Big Lie: that THEY aren't getting any of that power and money, it's the fat cats at the top of the ladder."

A brilliant tactic indeed, why democracies fail, and why our republic is in troubling -- perhaps fatal -- times. Do you predict fascism or socialism for the US?

A perfectly fair point. Correction noted.

 

[Luke T.]

It ain't just the top one percent getting fatter. The whole country is fat. Look at the diet market. It is booming.

We are living longer, better, and more comfortably than any other people in history.

Take a look around your house/apartment/living quarters. How many of those things were not available to everyone 30 years ago?

Do you deny there is a trickling down effect?

What is our current unemployment rate? 5 percent? Somewhere around there. What country, Right or Left dominated, anywhere on the planet has a better unemployment rate?

Ronald Reagan implemented huge tax cuts, broke record budget spending levels, ran up mind-boggling deficits, and what happened? Disaster? End of the world? No. Our economy boomed. So far and so fast that no one could keep up. We spanked the USSR so hard with our material success while still being able to build up our defenses, they capitulated in complete defeat.

As for rejecting everything the Right stands for, I believe we stand on the brink of another Great Awakening. It could go either way. Not that I look forward to the pendulum swinging farther right. In fact, it scares me to think it might. But the signs are there.

 

[Zero]

Yeah, Tony. You're being manipulated. Who has ever actually, REALLY tried to take your guns away? No one, of course. You can have them for all I care. You're being filled with the fear of those Awful Gun-Registering Leftists so you'll think everything we say is automatically wrong.

Wake up, buddy! It's a shell game.

The whole gun control thing is pretty much a phony issue, at least to me. The majority of people on either side are fairly sane about the issue, but the politicians use it as a lever to push on people who have little time to research the realities of it. The same is true, I think, on most issues.

 

[Jocko]

At least the Democrats and an increasing number of dissatisfied Republicans admit that increased needs in our current situation will likely lead to higher taxation, or at least a scaling back of tax cuts. This administration, on the other hand, ignores all of that, and promises the "pie in the sky" notions that deficits will magically disappear, possibly through banning gay marriage(I'm not to clear on this one, and seemingly neither is Bush).

No one has drawn any of these conclusions or connections but you. Bush never said deficits will magically disappear, and no one has blamed them on gay marriage.

It's hardly the republicans' fault that you can't differentiate between multiple issues, nor that you see phantom connections between unrelated policy matters.

And let me tell you what I consider "pie in the sky" policies:

Universal and government-controlled health care, based on the idea that Big Brother knows best.

Judicial fiat trumping legislative prerogatives, based on the idea that individual judges have more right to shape our nation than the voters do.

Surrendering US sovereignty to a mismanaged organization like the UN, based on the idea that the whole brotherhood of man is just itching to give peace a chance.

I could go on, but I hope you get the picture.

 

[Zero]

It ain't just the top one percent getting fatter. The whole country is fat. Look at the diet market. It is booming.

We are living longer, better, and more comfortably than any other people in history.

Take a look around your house/apartment/living quarters. How many of those things were not available to everyone 30 years ago?

Do you deny there is a trickling down effect?

What is our current unemployment rate? 5 percent? Somewhere around there. What country, Right or Left dominated, anywhere on the planet has a better unemployment rate?

Ronald Reagan implemented huge tax cuts, broke record budget spending levels, ran up mind-boggling deficits, and what happened? Disaster? End of the world? No. Our economy boomed. So far and so fast that no one could keep up. We spanked the USSR so hard with our material success while still being able to build up our defenses, they capitulated in complete defeat.

As for rejecting everything the Right stands for, I believe we stand on the brink of another Great Awakening. It could go either way. Not that I look forward to the pendulum swinging farther right. In fact, it scares me to think it might. But the signs are there.

See, this is exactly why I feel that extremists have no proper role in our government. America's two-party system works pretty well, and a moderate course would seem best in most cases. Those people who have claimed that the system is broken and needs radical change, do so from some narrow interest that I feel will likely turn out negatively for the majority of us.

While I disagree with your assesment of the Reagan years(and probably about Bush as well), the good news is that we have always been able to make small changes to adjust when one method doesn't seem to be an answer to everything.