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Right, Left and coddling

Ziggurat said:
There are conditions to that statement which make it true (ie, when it's properly handled). So he's right, if you accept certain reasonable assumptions, but it's bad communication style to not make those assumptions explicit.

There, I split the baby.
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I was just saying it's not a threat to the population because of how it's carefully handled, which he seems to get one some level, but he's being obtuse. :)
 
Ziggurat said:
There are conditions to that statement which make it true (ie, when it's properly handled). So he's right, if you accept certain reasonable assumptions, but it's bad communication style to not make those assumptions explicit.

There, I split the baby.
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But that's the same for most things. Natural gas, oil, electricity will all kill you stone dead if handled incorrectly (and indeed are responsible for tens of thousands of times more deaths worldwide than nuclear fuel).
 
kellyb said:
I was just saying it's not a threat to the population because of how it's carefully handled, which he seems to get one some level, but he's being obtuse. :)
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I'm left wondering which forms of energy are improperly handled?
 
kellyb said:
I was just saying it's not a threat to the population because of how it's carefully handled, which he seems to get one some level, but he's being obtuse. :)
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baron said:
But that's the same for most things. Natural gas, oil, electricity will all kill you stone dead if handled incorrectly (and indeed are responsible for tens of thousands of times more deaths worldwide than nuclear fuel).
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Seems like nobody likes half a baby. :(
 
JoeMorgue said:
Fine whatever. If anyone, from either side, believes that a full 40% of the population has gotten so cartoonishly evil that's there's no going back then start acting like it. Just start shooting them on sight as the inhuman monsters you think they are. Just straight go full Civil War if things really and truly are this far past the point of no return.
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Exactly!

I want somebody to explain me which is the difference between considering any conservative a fascist nutjob and considering any colour person driving a car a security risk.

Do people in the States say "He's conservative but he's a good person", "I'm not discriminating anyone, I have a friend who is conservative", "I'm open-minded as conservatives, there are good ones, there are bad ones" etc.?
 
Fudbucker said:
Do we agree that Trump is unfit for the office?

(I stopped reading as commanded)
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A majority of people plus states decided he's fit.

There's a very simplistic litmus test to perform:

"Trump is unfit for the office but Cruz is pretty fine"
"Trump is unfit for the office but Rubio is pretty fine"
"Trump is unfit for the office but Carson is pretty fine"

If you don't find any of the previous statements to be true, the problem is not in Trump and fitness.
 
aleCcowaN said:
A majority of people plus states decided he's fit.

There's a very simplistic litmus test to perform:

"Trump is unfit for the office but Cruz is pretty fine"
"Trump is unfit for the office but Rubio is pretty fine"
"Trump is unfit for the office but Carson is pretty fine"

If you don't find any of the previous statements to be true, the problem is not in Trump and fitness.
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Fitness is a spectrum. Trump is unusually, uniquely unfit.
I don't think anyone was arguing that McCain and Romney were "unfit" - they were just undesirable compared to the alternative.
 
Ziggurat said:
Sure, because it's got the word "uranium" in it, and people don't know what "depleted" means in this context.



I'm reminded of the simultaneous claims from Chris Cuomo that nobody wants to repeal the 2nd amendment and from former Justice Stevens that we should repeal the 2nd amendment. I'm sure some fears about gun control are irrational, but not all of them.



I'm not sure you do. For my part, I never tried to establish any equivalency. Such a judgment is always subjective, and conditions and people change over time, so it's sort of a fool's errand. The only point I was trying to establish is that, contrary to Fudbucker's claim, there are irrational fears on the left. You haven't tried to refute that point, but haven't actually conceded it either. Instead, you basically moved the goalpost for Fudbucker to the question of equivalency. And I have no interest in chasing that rabbit down a hole.
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Of course, this is not what I claimed. The fear of an unfit President occupying the presidency is a rational fear.
 
Ziggurat said:
First, in regard to Peterson, he's a university professor. In the environment he works in, the extreme left is absolutely far more of a problem than the extreme right. It's only natural that he attacks the problem he is most directly confronted with. And it's not like he's in favor of the extreme right either, he's quite willing to denounce them to, and he does. That he doesn't do so with sufficient frequency to satisfy you seems pretty immaterial.

Second, in regards to politics, you're not going to be able to establish numbers on that kind of extreme belief. All your metrics are going to be subjective. And the best you can do is anecdotes, which are obviously subject to extreme sampling error. For example, there was the city councilman who recently said Jews control the weather and use that power to flood cities. What does that mean for the broader question of left-wing extremism? I could try to claim he's representative, or just the tip of the iceberg, but I don't actually know that.
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"Survey results released by YouGov Friday show that 51 percent of Republicans said they think former President Barack Obama was born in Kenya, compared to just 14 percent of Democrats. Perhaps unsurprisingly, respondents who voted for Donald Trump in the 2016 election were especially convinced of Obama's African origins: Fully 57 percent said it was "definitely true" or "probably true" that the 44th president came from Kenya."
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-birther-obama-poll-republicans-kenya-744195

"Just 35 percent of Republicans believed global warming was caused by humans, compared with 40 percent at about this time in 2017 when Trump had barely taken office. A full 89 percent of Democrats, meanwhile, believed humans caused global warming.

Just 42 percent said most scientists believe global warming is occurring, down from 53 percent last year."
http://www.newsweek.com/trumps-amer...believe-climate-change-real-poll-shows-864550

PRINCETON, NJ -- There is a significant political divide in beliefs about the origin of human beings, with 60% of Republicans saying humans were created in their present form by God 10,000 years ago, a belief shared by only 40% of independents and 38% of Democrats.
http://news.gallup.com/poll/108226/republicans-democrats-differ-creationism.aspx

About half of Republicans would support postponing the 2020 election so the country can address claims of voter fraud, according to a new poll by the Washington Post’s Monkey Cage blog.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...blicans-voter-fraud-delay-2020-elections-poll

It is obvious Republicans are divorced from reality, and the problem is getting worse.
 
Fudbucker said:
PRINCETON, NJ -- There is a significant political divide in beliefs about the origin of human beings, with 60% of Republicans saying humans were created in their present form by God 10,000 years ago, a belief shared by only 40% of independents and 38% of Democrats.
http://news.gallup.com/poll/108226/r...eationism.aspx
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Fudbucker said:
It is obvious Republicans are divorced from reality, and the problem is getting worse.
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It is obvious both paragraphs are divorced from each other.
 
Fudbucker said:
Of course, this is not what I claimed. The fear of an unfit President occupying the presidency is a rational fear.
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No. You didn't simply state that this one fear was rational, you said "There are frightened people on the Left, of course, but their fears are rationally grounded". There are more fears on the left than simply Trump being unfit for office. According to your previous claim, those fears are all rational. If you want to change your position now, go ahead, but that's what you said.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Jesus Christ.

Fine whatever. If anyone, from either side, believes that a full 40% of the population has gotten so cartoonishly evil that's there's no going back then start acting like it. Just start shooting them on sight as the inhuman monsters you think they are. Just straight go full Civil War if things really and truly are this far past the point of no return.
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But here's the problem.

The GOP has openly cultivated and taught outright racism for decades. Dolt 45 was hardly the first person to state something brazenly racist about Obama - think of Rush Limbaugh's claim that the Obama's economic plan was "forced reparations" - sure you can go to a doctor and get a job, white guy, but black people can, too, and you should be angry about it (Obama himself was outright against racial reparations - while Alan Keyes, of all people, supported them!). Or, think of Dinesh D'Souza's absurd fantasy of Obama trying to avenge his father by embracing "Kenyan anti-colonialism", as opposed to American anti-colonialism I guess. Think of Reagan's "welfare queen" and her "young bucks" buying steak for dinner, for that matter.

I called Dolt 45's supposed "voting commission" the voter suppression all-stars specifically because the republican members have spent decades openly trying to keep as many nonwhite people from voting as possible. I can't go to the voting booth and then vote in a way to calm the anger of people that are angry specifically because I got to the voting booth. I can't avoid a fight with someone who is hellbent on us having a fight, particularly when this person just shows up looking for a fight with me, and I've effected him in no negative way. I can't really avoid noting the racism of any person who is politically astute that supported Toupee Fiasco, since open white supremacism was the central tenet of his campaign and presidency. It's not that he didn't promise to *help* people based on their skin color - it's that he promised to *harm* people based on their skin color.

Frankly, it wouldn't shock me if even Dolt 45's complete unfitness for office was seen as a way to show that he'd somehow *still* be a better president than that Obama, simply because he's white.

And before anyone objects, this sentence is the only time I'm using the word "conservative" in this post. This is a look at Republicans as a political party.
 
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Ziggurat said:
No. You didn't simply state that this one fear was rational, you said "There are frightened people on the Left, of course, but their fears are rationally grounded". There are more fears on the left than simply Trump being unfit for office. According to your previous claim, those fears are all rational. If you want to change your position now, go ahead, but that's what you said.
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I cited an example: an unfit president. Another, obviously, is climate change.
 
Fudbucker said:
I cited an example: an unfit president. Another, obviously, is climate change.
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Also...who actually voted based on vaccination fears (which Dolt 45 peddled, and Clinton rejected) or on nuclear energy (which is basically a non-starter these days regardless)? I mean, possibly Nevadans angry about that storage facility in their state, but that seems to be bipartisan anger even there.

THis is, after all, a thread about presidential support first, and Jordan Peterson's ridiculous self second...
 
kellyb said:
Fitness is a spectrum. Trump is unusually, uniquely unfit.
I don't think anyone was arguing that McCain and Romney were "unfit" - they were just undesirable compared to the alternative.
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He is not only uniquely unfit, Trump was also grossly unprepared for the job. I don't think he ever seriously entertained the notion that he could actually win. Since then, he has made no indication that he has even made much of an attempt to get up to speed to be president. He BS'ed his way in and he gives every impression of intending to BS his way through his term.

There are few modern Republican candidates I could get behind, but I didn't consider any of them existential threats to the US, until Trump.
 
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