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Right, Left and coddling

Mumbles said:
Also...who actually voted based on vaccination fears (which Dolt 45 peddled, and Clinton rejected) or on nuclear energy (which is basically a non-starter these days regardless)? I mean, possibly Nevadans angry about that storage facility in their state, but that seems to be bipartisan anger even there.

THis is, after all, a thread about presidential support first, and Jordan Peterson's ridiculous self second...
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Right. GMO "fears" pale in comparison to the fears of deportation, roll back of abortion rights, LGBT rights, chipping away at Obamacare, etc. This pining by many on the Right for a 1950's America has many people on the left rightfully concerned.

"A new national survey from PRRI finds 72 percent of likely Trump likely voters say American culture and way of life has changed for the worse since the 1950s, while roughly 70 percent of likely Hillary Clinton voters say life and culture in the U.S. has changed for the better since that time."
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article110293997.html

That one survey right there is terrifying. The 1950's were great, for a certain large segment of Trump supporters.
 
Fudbucker said:
You're disputing something that was never claimed by anyone here, so far as I can tell.
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Again, that is the meaning of the words you posted. Perhaps you didn't mean it, perhaps you were just writing badly, that's not a big deal.

But if you didn't mean it, then that post was kind of pointless. Just as there are irrational fears on both sides, there are rational fears on both sides as well.
 
Ziggurat said:
Again, that is the meaning of the words you posted. Perhaps you didn't mean it, perhaps you were just writing badly, that's not a big deal.

But if you didn't mean it, then that post was kind of pointless. Just as there are irrational fears on both sides, there are rational fears on both sides as well.
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Of course it's not the meaning, and if you quote the whole sentence, instead of truncating it, like you did, you'll understand why:

There are frightened people on the Left, of course, but their fears are rationally grounded and shared by many on the Right: Trump is unfit for office, and for the President to be unfit for the office is rightfully a scary thing.
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Trump being unfit for office entails many anxieties (fears), which are felt by both the right and left: Trump's racism, dishonesty, stupidity, scapegoating, and attacks on institutions of law and order are called out by both Left and Right. The fear of deportation of Dreamers is also shared by some on the Right.

Again, if you can't debate honestly, don't bother.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Or perhaps it's because I used to work in a factory that made the stuff.

I guess the company I worked for (not Monsanto) fell for the same conspiracy theories and was wasting its money on the safety protocols, medical checkups, and yearly blood testing for its workers.
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A company that manufactures chemicals created and followed safety protocols, had medical checkups and blood testing? Wow that is really something. And again, glyphosate has nothing to do with GMOs. And opposing GMOs has nothing to do with preventing herbicide resistant crops.
 
Fudbucker said:
A new national survey from PRRI finds 72 percent of likely Trump likely voters say American culture and way of life has changed for the worse since the 1950s, while roughly 70 percent of likely Hillary Clinton voters say life and culture in the U.S. has changed for the better since that time.
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"One man's heaven is another man's hell." -- Thomas Goodwin
 
Fudbucker said:
Right. GMO "fears" pale in comparison to the fears of deportation, roll back of abortion rights, LGBT rights, chipping away at Obamacare, etc. This pining by many on the Right for a 1950's America has many people on the left rightfully concerned.
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Different people vote based on different issues. I know many anti-GMO people who either vote for a different candidate or will not vote at all if the candidate from the party they generally would support does not oppose GMOs. I know a number of people who voted for Stein, despite all those fears, in large part because of issues like GMOs.

On the other hand, I know a lot of rural farmers both in the US and in Canada who have changed their voting preference based on the lies that anti-GMO activists and left-wing candidates have spread. I have relatives in Canada who shifted from voting for the party that is farthest left for many decades (NDP) to the party that is farthest right (Conservatives) because they know that the claims candidates have made about GMOs are pure lies, and that infuriates them. And if they know that environmental groups and left-wing parties spread lies about GMOs, then why should they believe a word those same groups and parties say on other topics? Like Climate Change? Its about trust. It spreads far beyond the initial issue.

I wondered if early in the Presidential candidates campaign, US farmers might think about shifting Democrat based on Trump's anti-GMO remarks, along with Clinton being one of the most pro-GMO politicians, but when I talked to farmers this was going no where with them. Party-wise the Dems were still the party of GMO lies, and they were not going to overcome that damage, especially when Sanders (who had spread plenty of lies about GMOs) was still in the running for the Dems, and while Trump was perhaps not even the Republican favorite at that time. By the time they each became their Party's official candidates Trump had shut up about the GMO conspiracy theories he had commented on and Clinton had shut up about her GMO support.
 
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Fudbucker said:
Of course it's not the meaning, and if you quote the whole sentence, instead of truncating it, like you did, you'll understand why:



Trump being unfit for office entails many anxieties (fears), which are felt by both the right and left: Trump's racism, dishonesty, stupidity, scapegoating, and attacks on institutions of law and order are called out by both Left and Right. The fear of deportation of Dreamers is also shared by some on the Right.

Again, if you can't debate honestly, don't bother.
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I've been honest from the start. If your meaning wasn't clear to me, that's not dishonesty. That's basically bad writing. You compared random fears from the public comment section of a website to one specific fear. If that one specific fear wasn't representative for the left (ie, all the left's fears were similarly rational), then what possible relevance does that comparison have? Well, none. It's just cherry picking. And so I assumed that instead of making an irrelevant comparison, you were trying to make a relevant one. Was I wrong about your intentions? Sure, I can accept that. Was that dishonest? No, it was not. I was clear from the start about what I thought you meant. And my interpretation was reasonable, even if incorrect. Instead of the comparison being wrong, it was simply pointless.
 
Fudbucker said:
The 1950's were great if you were a white male. So were the 1850's. And 1750's. It's only fairly recently that the balance of power has shifted.
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But the white male sees this rebalance of power approaching parity as threatening. He manufactures in his fear-addled brain a swinging of this power to beyond parity favoring the 'other'.
 
Lurch said:
But the white male sees this rebalance of power approaching parity as threatening. He manufactures in his fear-addled brain a swinging of this power to beyond parity favoring the 'other'.
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Remember, the majority of Trump supporters believe what white christians are the most discriminated against group in the US.

They actually were polling this way at the same time that they were supporting a ban on the immigration of any muslims into the US.

But it's the white Christians who are most discriminated against.

It's an alternate reality. It really is.
 
kellyb said:
Honestly, I've never heard of people worrying about it. It sounded radioactive. I honestly think y'all are stretching to find a leftwing equivalent to, say, the rightwing fear that all the guns are going to be confiscated to usher in martial law and tyranny, but okay. At least I know what sort of thing you were thinking of now.
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The conspiracy theories about depleted uranium were bizarre, deeply and crazily held by a small number of people who in my experience were almost entirely on the far left. They were some of the most dishonest people I have ever met, but I haven't seen anything on the DU conspiracy front for at least a decade, but maybe I have been lucky.

However, I agree, it is nothing like the right-wing gun conspiracies or climate change conspiracies.
 
Ziggurat said:
I've been honest from the start. If your meaning wasn't clear to me, that's not dishonesty. That's basically bad writing. You compared random fears from the public comment section of a website to one specific fear. If that one specific fear wasn't representative for the left (ie, all the left's fears were similarly rational), then what possible relevance does that comparison have? Well, none. It's just cherry picking. And so I assumed that instead of making an irrelevant comparison, you were trying to make a relevant one. Was I wrong about your intentions? Sure, I can accept that. Was that dishonest? No, it was not. I was clear from the start about what I thought you meant. And my interpretation was reasonable, even if incorrect. Instead of the comparison being wrong, it was simply pointless.
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Truncating a quote in the middle of a sentence, and implying meaning from the fragment quoted is dishonest.
 
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