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RFK Jr, vaccines, and autism

PookieBear said:
I maintain that this isn't "a conspiracy theory." This really happened. These are just FACTS.

By the way, it had tragic results. Absolutely tragic.

It made Muslims, who already think vaccines are an American or Jewish conspiracy to kill them and sterilize them, even MORE determined to not take them. Polio rates shot up, right when the world was on the brink of eradicating polio forever.

People who administer shots were seen as the enemy and viciously attacked for "hurting children." They were gang raped!

I don't know how you are even questioning this, to be honest.
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We are not questioning it. We've explained that several times.

Again, what does it have to do with the efficacy of the vaccines?
 
It shows that vaccines CAN be ineffective (at best) or possibly dangerous and part of a sinister and malevolent conspiracy against you, for lack of a better term.

This makes people distrust the government and the medical establishment and the pharmaceutical industry and so-called charities....and for good reason.

Especially if they've heard about the Tuskegee experiments- that just completes the picture for them, especially if they are people of color!

If they see them as the enemy or just useless, that isn't cause they are paranoid or cynical or "ungrateful for Western medicine" or "primitives who don't understand science."

Not everyone who questions vaccines and pills is some wacky Scientologist or some crazy New Age hippie with an "all natural" obsession or a Christian Puritan, I will add.
 
PookieBear said:
I don't think you should trust the CIA to respect the rules. This is the same organization that might have killed Malcolm X and Kennedy. If they kill people, they aren't going to have qualms about giving people fake vaccines.

By the way, I am still trying to make head or tail of what happened here. This story is weird.

CIA fake vaccination campaign in Pakistan - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
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No. CIA didn't kill JFK, we have an entire thread dedicated to this nonsense. And Malcolm X was murdered by members of the Nation of Islam. And please explain why CIA would have any interest in vaccines at all, beyond Biowarfare defense?
 
Chris_Halkides said:
I agree with what I take to be Kookbreaker's point that this covert operation has nothing to do with RFK and vaccine efficacy. I have no reason to doubt the reporting in The Guardian, which indicated that the vaccines were real; the failure to perform the second shot looks dubious for more than one reason.
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Yeah, the whole spook thing in Pakistan was squirrelly AF. But saying that makes vaccines fake also makes everything else they used or touched fake. Which they weren't. MSF were obviously angry this stuff bolloxed up a perfectly legit vaccine program right where it was needed most.
 
PookieBear said:
So, junk shop, are you denying that the CIA distributed fake vaccines?

They themselves admitted it! The Pakistani government says this happened.

What part of this isn't open-and-shut? Besides the bizarre detail about the doctor also being a possible terrorist who may have been a patsy for the real ringleader.
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The CIA was using the cover of a Hep-B vaccine program to collect blood samples. They never administered the vaccine (which works). And it this happened under the Obama administration. Haven't seen the CIA's IG report, probably classified.
This is Johns Hopkin's response:

CIA Vaccination Cover in Pakistan | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

CIA Vaccination Cover in Pakistan
publichealth.jhu.edu publichealth.jhu.edu

This is the CIA's blow-off response :

However, none of this draws into question the continuing success of vaccines worldwide.
 
PookieBear said:
It shows that vaccines CAN be ineffective (at best) or possibly dangerous and part of a sinister and malevolent conspiracy against you, for lack of a better term.

This makes people distrust the government and the medical establishment and the pharmaceutical industry and so-called charities....and for good reason.

Especially if they've heard about the Tuskegee experiments- that just completes the picture for them, especially if they are people of color!

If they see them as the enemy or just useless, that isn't cause they are paranoid or cynical or "ungrateful for Western medicine" or "primitives who don't understand science."

Not everyone who questions vaccines and pills is some wacky Scientologist or some crazy New Age hippie with an "all natural" obsession or a Christian Puritan, I will add.
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The Tuskegee Program started 93 years ago, and wrapped up in 1972, 53 years ago. Yes, it was unethical on every level. It stands as a mile-marker for how the US Government treated African-Americans in the 1930s through the 1970s. On the other hand, we have successful syphilis treatments today due to this. Just justifying it, just stating fact.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Yeah, the whole spook thing in Pakistan was squirrelly AF. But saying that makes vaccines fake also makes everything else they used or touched fake. Which they weren't. MSF were obviously angry this stuff bolloxed up a perfectly legit vaccine program right where it was needed most.
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Not to mention Save the Children, who were also rightly pissed.
 
Wait, why is Save the Children angry!?

If I were the head of a government and I learned that a so-called charity was full of spies, I would also distrust them and kick them out. That's just common sense.

How are they the victims here?
 
PookieBear said:
Wait, why is Save the Children angry!?

If I were the head of a government and I learned that a so-called charity was full of spies, I would also distrust them and kick them out. That's just common sense.

How are they the victims here?
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The CIA used them like toilet paper and kicked them to the kerb. You've bought into the propaganda that it was all their fault. The CIA is to blame for this, not the organisation they abused, which for your information does real work on the ground in developing countries and disadvantaged communities.

That you would tar such an organisation with lies and propaganda is quite frankly disgusting.
 
It isn't a lie. It isn't propaganda. It isn't disgusting.

You think they were somehow tricked into this? Like they didn't know? Like they weren't happily complicit?

If anything, you should use that argument in regards to the doctor. Of him, you can say "They used him to spy and then just left him in Pakistan, where he was promptly thrown into jail."
 
PookieBear said:
It isn't a lie. It isn't propaganda. It isn't disgusting.

You think they were somehow tricked into this? Like they didn't know? Like they weren't happily complicit?
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Having worked with Save the Children and other charities in the past, yes. They were shamelessly and mercilessly used by the CIA and then made scapegoats.

It's a lie, it's propaganda, and it is ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ disgusting.
 
Axxman300 said:
The Tuskegee Program started 93 years ago, and wrapped up in 1972, 53 years ago. Yes, it was unethical on every level. It stands as a mile-marker for how the US Government treated African-Americans in the 1930s through the 1970s. On the other hand, we have successful syphilis treatments today due to this. Just justifying it, just stating fact.
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Just for the record: The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment developed absolutely nothing. It was purely an experiment to see what the long-term effects of Syphilis infection were. Antibiotics to treat Syphilis were developed independent of this program and the previous treatments weren't used.

About the only good thing that came out of this experiment was that the medical institution improved informed consent rules a whole bunch.
 
PookieBear said:
It shows that vaccines CAN be ineffective (at best) or possibly dangerous and part of a sinister and malevolent conspiracy against you, for lack of a better term.

This makes people distrust the government and the medical establishment and the pharmaceutical industry and so-called charities....and for good reason.

Especially if they've heard about the Tuskegee experiments- that just completes the picture for them, especially if they are people of color!

If they see them as the enemy or just useless, that isn't cause they are paranoid or cynical or "ungrateful for Western medicine" or "primitives who don't understand science."

Not everyone who questions vaccines and pills is some wacky Scientologist or some crazy New Age hippie with an "all natural" obsession or a Christian Puritan, I will add.
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No, it doesn't show the slightest thing about the efficacy or safety of vaccines or other medicines.

If the CIA had disguised themselves as gas boiler repair men to get into OBL's home would that convince you domestic gas appliances are dangerous?
 
Axxman300 said:
The Tuskegee Program started 93 years ago, and wrapped up in 1972, 53 years ago. Yes, it was unethical on every level. It stands as a mile-marker for how the US Government treated African-Americans in the 1930s through the 1970s. On the other hand, we have successful syphilis treatments today due to this. Just justifying it, just stating fact.
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NOT justifying the Tuskegee experiments. I'm on a roll.
 
When Obama took office and appointed Panetta DCI, Panetta found a CIA whose operations wing was divided into the over-aggressive folks running the renditions at Gitmo and various black sites, and forward case officers who seemed to be overwhelmed, and under aggressive. There was a shift into aggressive case officers, and the ethics got thrown out the window. The irony is the under aggressive case officers were the ones who tracked down bin Laden. Go figure.

And I understand the temptation to use UN relief, the Peace Corps, Doctors Without Borders, and other NGOs as cover for intel gathering, but it's dangerous for the civilians who have dedicated their lives to public service, and it's damned lazy. I miss Air America.
 
I still think this disgusting story is proof that so-called "conspiracies" are real. I still think Save the Children wasn't all that innocent in this fiasco.

I still wonder if the jailed guy was just a fall guy for the real culprits.

I still wonder how effective the Covid vaccine is, since you wind up just getting Covid anyway.

I still don't blame African-Americans and Muslims for being suspicious of medical treatments.
 
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