RFID Chip

Red3 said:
I'd like someone to give me one good reason why THEY should want to chip everyone?
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In popular conspiracy theories about the chip, the motivation is to remove cash from society and use the chip as a cash card style device. The worries of truthers are that the chip can be de-activated as and when the gubment want to disconnect one from society.
Also there are a lot of religious nuts who compare the chip to the mark of the beast.

I request to the moderators of this forum not to remove the following passages. I am in no way trying to peddle religious beliefs. I am just trying to demonstrate the various woo around the RFID Chip/verichip. Thank you.

Book of revelations chapter 13:
16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
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18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.
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Hi Squidgy,

Yeah I know the back story of the "truth movement" version but why would the gvmnt in reality want to chip everyone? That was my point... Wouldn't it be pretty pointless and expensive? I can see where it might be advantageous to chip criminals or soldiers for ex. but why everyone else? And to what end? Why would they need to have ultimate control over a person? As for the cashless society that will happen anyway...It's not much different from having cash; after all that's just a progression from lugging bags of gold around.
 
Red3 said:
Hi Squidgy,

Yeah I know the back story of the "truth movement" version but why would the gvmnt in reality want to chip everyone? That was my point... Wouldn't it be pretty pointless and expensive? I can see where it might be advantageous to chip criminals or soldiers for ex. but why everyone else? And to what end? Why would they need to have ultimate control over a person? As for the cashless society that will happen anyway...It's not much different from having cash; after all that's just a progression from lugging bags of gold around.
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I agree, it would be costly and probably not very efficient. But saying a cashless society is inevitable, is this not a plausible way to do it?
I have to say, if I was a military man I would welcome some sort of tag so I could be found if taken hostage.
 
Why would we need to implant them, though? Why not just place it into an earring or a necklace or something? I'm a little curious about the implantation myself, but more in the sense of why would it be necessary? Why not just make it a part of someone's identification card?

For example; the military and certain government civilians use a card known as a Common Access Card (I have one myself; it's my military ID; we also refer to it (redundantly) as a CAC card). The card contains a small computer chip that records certain vital statistics about me, including my credentials so I'm able to log on to whatever computer network I'm registered to. The computer chip also lists my personal stats, including blood type, home of record, religious affiliation, etc; the sort of thing that you typically see on a soldier's dog tags or can find out relatively easily anyway. Why not make THAT the quote-unquote "RFID chip" that the "ebil guvmint" wants to track everyone with? Surely it's not that difficult to ensure that everyone in the country gets an ID card, especially if that becomes the only way to conduct business. Why implantation? If someone could explain the whole "implantation" idea to me, I'd surely be grateful; until then, I'll stay skeptical of the whole idea, thanks.
 
I have often thought about why some form of chip has not been suggested for children. A simple identification chip, so that their location could be determined if they went missing or kidnapped.

Then, thinking it through, I realized that it would be riddled with issues, both social and physical, as well as criminal.

I think this is why having such a wide scale enforced implementation of RFID chips in the general populus would not be feasible.

TAM:)
 
Squidgy said:
I agree, it would be costly and probably not very efficient. But saying a cashless society is inevitable, is this not a plausible way to do it?
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Something akin to a credit card would be a lot less controversial! Maybe they will use rfid for it in the future,although it's doubtful...What if it breaks or goes walkabout? It still doesn't mean we're all gonna be forced into it by the powers that be as the C.Tists suggest though.

They wouldn't need to force people into it anyway saying that...Bring out a couple of snazzy ads backed by one or two celebs and bob's yer uncle, everyone'll want one.

I have to say, if I was a military man I would welcome some sort of tag so I could be found if taken hostage.
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Yeah exactly; the rfid chip has plenty of real life applications re: implanting, this being one of 'em. The child example of TAM's being another, although like he more or less said, that has moral implications.
 
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Sabrina said:
Why would we need to implant them, though? Why not just place it into an earring or a necklace or something? I'm a little curious about the implantation myself, but more in the sense of why would it be necessary? Why not just make it a part of someone's identification card?
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The only possible benefit would be the crime angle, ie: it's harder to steal & use etc. But that'd soon be overcome.
 
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T.A.M. said:
I have often thought about why some form of chip has not been suggested for children. A simple identification chip, so that their location could be determined if they went missing or kidnapped.

Then, thinking it through, I realized that it would be riddled with issues, both social and physical, as well as criminal.

I think this is why having such a wide scale enforced implementation of RFID chips in the general populus would not be feasible.

TAM:)
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Still looking for the link, but several years ago I read an article in my local newspaper about a few wealthy parents having their children chipped for this reason. (Of course, nothing there about a government-mandated program.)
 
I saw a documentary, or perhaps a news story, about a computer scientist who was developing a chip like this, and had already implanted himself with a prototype. The computers in his house tracked him with it while he was in the house or nearby and did things like turned the lights on and off, unlocked exterior doors remotely, and that sort of thing.

But, I don't remember where I saw it or precisely when; it was probably a few years ago.
 
This thing is riddled with so many ethical issues, it's highly unlikely that any modern society (save perhaps N.K.) would even think about making RFID implants mandatory.
 
JoeyDonuts,

Well, if the government first chipped sex-offenders, it might be accepted because "hey sex offenders are scum" right? Also chipping military personnel for the purpose of identifying remains might be accepted too, even if it wasn't for that purpose but for tracking, and plus military personnel can't say no right? Then from sex offenders it could graduate to other criminals, first violent ones, then eventually to all of 'em. And regarding military personnel, if ever some kind of mandatory military service or some kind of civilian national security force, it could progress to them too which would include everybody

Now I'm not saying this is guaranteed to happen, but if it does it wouldn't happen at once, as you said people would have a cow, it would happen in stages, first on people who can't say no, and on undesirable and unpopular members of society, eventually it would spread until eventually to everybody. It would be slow and insidious.


INRM
 
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INRM said:
JoeyDonuts,

Well, if the government first chipped sex-offenders, it might be accepted because hey sex offenders are scum. Also chipping military personnel for the purpose of identifying remains might be accepted too, plus military personnel can't say no right? Then from sex offenders it could graduate to other criminals, first violent ones, then eventually to all of 'em.

And regarding military personnel, if ever some kind of mandatory military service or some kind of civilian national security force, it could progress to them too which would include everybody.
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That's exactly how conspiracy theories are born; come up with the worst case scenario and run as far as you can with it.

Now I'm not saying this is guaranteed to happen, but if it does it wouldn't happen at once, as you said people would have a cow, it would happen in stages, slowly and insidiously.
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I believe David Icke calls it the totalitarian tiptoe ;)
 
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INRM said:
JoeyDonuts,

Well, if the government first chipped sex-offenders, it might be accepted because "hey sex offenders are scum" right? Also chipping military personnel for the purpose of identifying remains might be accepted too, even if it wasn't for that purpose but for tracking, and plus military personnel can't say no right? Then from sex offenders it could graduate to other criminals, first violent ones, then eventually to all of 'em. And regarding military personnel, if ever some kind of mandatory military service or some kind of civilian national security force, it could progress to them too which would include everybody

Now I'm not saying this is guaranteed to happen, but if it does it wouldn't happen at once, as you said people would have a cow, it would happen in stages, first on people who can't say no, and on undesirable and unpopular members of society, eventually it would spread until eventually to everybody. It would be slow and insidious.


INRM
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Um, no. This be not true.

A military member has the right to refuse an unlawful order; that's regulation. And right now, there is nothing that says any soldier is REQUIRED to submit to such a thing. No law, no regulation, nothing.

Get the notion of "military can't say no" RIGHT out of your head please. It's stated specifically in the enlistment oath that "I will obey the LAWFUL orders of my superiors"; it says NOTHING about having to say yes to every little whim that pops into a superior's head.

Yeesh, if that were the case, I'd've never joined in the first place.
 
INRM said:
JoeyDonuts,

Well, if the government first chipped sex-offenders, it might be accepted because "hey sex offenders are scum" right? Also chipping military personnel for the purpose of identifying remains might be accepted too, even if it wasn't for that purpose but for tracking, and plus military personnel can't say no right? Then from sex offenders it could graduate to other criminals, first violent ones, then eventually to all of 'em. And regarding military personnel, if ever some kind of mandatory military service or some kind of civilian national security force, it could progress to them too which would include everybody

Now I'm not saying this is guaranteed to happen, but if it does it wouldn't happen at once, as you said people would have a cow, it would happen in stages, first on people who can't say no, and on undesirable and unpopular members of society, eventually it would spread until eventually to everybody. It would be slow and insidious.


INRM
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oh my, oh my.

1. Sex Offenders...yah, not such a bad idea as they are scum.
2. Do you not think their would be strict guidelines for this, when and if it did pass? For instance, you have it implanted for the first 5 years post sentence, and then if no further incarcerations, you have it removed.
3. Military personnel, yah, not a bad idea either. A VOLUNTEER program where you have one inserted if you like. Once again, we are talking about LOCATING DEVICES!!!!
4. Once again, there would be strict rules in place, so that your chip was removed upon discharge/retirement.
5. Your "include everybody" scenario is just foolish. If you think such things are gonna happen, even remotely, go back to reading sci-fi novels and watching the matrix.

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
oh my, oh my.

1. Sex Offenders...yah, not such a bad idea as they are scum.
2. Do you not think their would be strict guidelines for this, when and if it did pass? For instance, you have it implanted for the first 5 years post sentence, and then if no further incarcerations, you have it removed.
3. Military personnel, yah, not a bad idea either. A VOLUNTEER program where you have one inserted if you like. Once again, we are talking about LOCATING DEVICES!!!!
4. Once again, there would be strict rules in place, so that your chip was removed upon discharge/retirement.
5. Your "include everybody" scenario is just foolish. If you think such things are gonna happen, even remotely, go back to reading sci-fi novels and watching the matrix.

TAM:)
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My bolding. No we're not, if we're talking about the VeriChip. It holds a few hundred bits (not bytes, bits) of information. It's passive, meaning it's powered by the interrogating device. It doesn't really "send out" a signal. It modulates by absorbing more or less of the carrier produced by the interrogator. Commercially-available readers read them at two or three inches. They're not going to be terribly useful as a tracking device.
 
Don't most RFID chips have severe range limitations as well? I suppose the government could chip people, and then wait and hope they wander by some chip reader...


ETA: And I should have read all the way to the end of the thread. TjW beat me by half an hour.
 
The only question I have about RFID chips is do they taste better with Bacon and Horseradish or French Onion dip?
 
Hokulele said:
Don't most RFID chips have severe range limitations as well? I suppose the government could chip people, and then wait and hope they wander by some chip reader...


ETA: And I should have read all the way to the end of the thread. TjW beat me by half an hour.
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I would be a tad miffed if I was chipped and couldn't get a GPS pinpoint when I needed it!
If I am forced to be chipped I will want to know that if I am deemed worthy of rescue they will find me. :D
 
JimBenArm said:
The only question I have about RFID chips is do they taste better with Bacon and Horseradish or French Onion dip?
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Everything tastes better with French Onion. Seriously, try it. Rocks. Bits of paper. Asphalt shingles. Anything.
 
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