Rev. Phelps Banned in the UK

[Darat]

A whole range of things could have changed, in this specific instance I have no details as to what has changed. All I do know is that this "preacher of hate" like quite a few other Islamic, Christian and non-religious (apparently) "preachers" of hate" have been refused entry into the UK. Usually the grounds given are public order concerns.

 

[Bandersnatch]

You said times have changed. What has changed?

Probably not alot happened, like between 1997 and 2002 in the states. Very little changes can actually occur in five years.

 

[BPSCG]

A whole range of things could have changed, in this specific instance I have no details as to what has changed. All I do know is that this "preacher of hate" like quite a few other Islamic, Christian and non-religious (apparently) "preachers" of hate" have been refused entry into the UK. Usually the grounds given are public order concerns.

Okay, so you're saying you don't really know.

Tell me about Ibrahim Mousawi. Ties to Hizbollah, vicious anti-semite, quotes from the protocols of the learned elders of zion. He was allowed to visit and speak in 2008. What's changed since then?

 

[Darat]

That is usually called a non-sequitur BPSGC.

 

[rwguinn]

In this particular case, Freedom of Speech is not an issue.
When the avowed purpose of your visit is to disrupt the peace and stir up trouble, denial of entry is appropriate.

 

[Darat]

rwguinn -please don't be so sensible, although this thread is about a Christan preacher of hate who has a reputation of causing public disorder in his own country being refused entry into the UK you need to somehow make it about the dreaded bogeyman. That is those evil Muslims "Islamics" that have taken over the UK and the whole world and are about to eat your children and make your women (and not just the ugly ones) wear veils.

 

[BPSCG]

rwguinn -please don't be so sensible, although this thread is about a Christan preacher of hate who has a reputation of causing public disorder in his own country being refused entry into the UK you need to somehow make it about the dreaded bogeyman. That is those evil Muslims "Islamics" that have taken over the UK and the whole world and are about to eat your children and make your women (and not just the ugly ones) wear veils.

Actually, it's about the UK and other European countries having become so fearful of their increasingly large, easily-aroused-to-anger Muslim populations that they dare not risk doing anything that might offend that population.

Again, Phelps's big mistake is not being a Muslim. Then he'd be welcome to preach his hatred of homosexuals. His religion seems to be the only significant difference between his hatred and Yusuf al-Qaradawi's.

 

[gumboot]

I don't think freedom of speech is an issue anyway. I think every country has a right to pick and choose who they let in. The government aren't saying "you can't speak your mind in the UK". They're saying "You're not allowed in". Not the same thing.

 

[Seismosaurus]

Edit - never mind

 

[Oliver]

Actually, it's about the UK and other European countries having become so fearful of their increasingly large, easily-aroused-to-anger Muslim populations that they dare not risk doing anything that might offend that population.

Again, Phelps's big mistake is not being a Muslim. Then he'd be welcome to preach his hatred of homosexuals. His religion seems to be the only significant difference between his hatred and Yusuf al-Qaradawi's.

Is that your "The Islamic republic of the UK" conspiracy theory?

 

[Darat]

Actually, it's about the UK and other European countries having become so fearful of their increasingly large, easily-aroused-to-anger Muslim populations that they dare not risk doing anything that might offend that population.

..snip...

Perhaps you should re-read the opening post, you may be surprised to learn that this thread was about a hate filled Christian bigot not being allowed into the UK.

Also let me get this right, the UK refusing entry to Islamic "preachers of hate" is because we are fearful of... hmmm... perhaps your conspiracy theory needs a bit more work.

Again, Phelps's big mistake is not being a Muslim. Then he'd be welcome to preach his hatred of homosexuals. His religion seems to be the only significant difference between his hatred and Yusuf al-Qaradawi's.

Oh I think there are quite a few other differences, but in one thing they are both the same i.e. both have been refused entry to the UK and from what I can gather on the same grounds.

 

[Checkmite]

I believe a government should be obligated to protect its citizens' freedom of speech. I do not believe that a government should be obligated to to accommodate people from other countries who want to visit just to speak and cause discord. The Danish (I think) government official and Fred Phelps each already have governments which protect their freedom of speech in their respective countries - they can say anything they want, and Britain's disallowing them entry does not stifle or chill their messages in any way whatsoever. Britain owes them nothing; it has a whole set of its own citizens to serve.

 

[dudalb]

I think Phelps should be allowed to speak and protest where he wants to. He is a prime example of the religious mind set and he should be there to remind the moderately religious how sick religion really is.

By the same reasoning the persecutation of religion in several Marxist countreis should prove how sick Atheism really is.

 

[dudalb]

I say let Phelps into the UK, then put him into a locked room with one of the more exteme Islamic preachers that the UK has, and make sure there are plenty of sharp instruments around. Solve two problems at once.

 

[dudalb]

I don't know why this surprises you. The UK government actively promotes and works with Mosques and Islamic groups that promote Wahhabism and Radicalism.

The Islamists have the wool pulled so far over the eyes of the Brits that it's chaffing their buttocks.

Guess the Brits did not learn much from 1938, and where appeasing fantatics gets you.

 

[volatile]

Guess the Brits did not learn much from 1938, and where appeasing fantatics gets you.

I hate to keep repeating this, but read The Racial State by Michael Burleigh. You don't think the tolerance of racist bigotry in 1930s Germany had anything to do with Hitler's rise to power and the public support of his racist politics?

You have a point bringing up 1938. But you're on the wrong side of it. 1938 proves precisely what happens if caution is not taken to prevent the spread of hatefulness.

 

[Aitch]

Anyway, seems like Fred's protest was a bit lame!

But only one protester arrived and was heckled away by counter-demonstrators.

(copy of my post in my thread in Religion etc)

 

[Nogbad]

Guess the Brits did not learn much from 1938, and where appeasing fantatics gets you.

Godwin aside, I think it fair to say that we are not appeasing anyone. Ken Livingstone is bit "out there" in his political affiliations and his views alone hardly represent the totality of opinions out there. The English press bless them are by and large very anti-foreign. They dislike most anybody really including us Scots, Welsh and Irish.

The difficulty we have is not so much that Europe is sleep walking into a Caliphate but rather that the chains keeping the cattle trucks in the sidings are creaking and that if too much volatility is allowed we will be back to 1938.

I agree with the priniciple of freedom of speech but I don't think we need import religious loons (regardless of religion) from abroad. We can supply our own if needed. So Phelps is free to say what he likes but there is no need to travel here to do it. Also I think the people of the US have been fantastically restrained - I am not sure we would be (our suing procedures are as well developed as yours)

 

[Darat]

...snip... The English press bless them are by and large very anti-foreign. They dislike most anybody really including us Scots, Welsh and Irish.


...snip...

I think that is rather unfair, it should be "The English press bless them are by and large very anti-foreign. They dislike most anybody really including us Scots, Welsh, Irish and English".

 

[Dr Adequate]

Guess the Brits did not learn much from 1938, and where appeasing fantatics gets you.

Speaking of "appeasing fanatics", what were you guys doing between September 1939, when Britain declared war on Germany, and December 1941, when Germany declared war on the US?

Well shut up then.