Merged Retracted autism study an 'elaborate fraud'

[Chodorov]

Four times in the linked article, and in this thread before Capsid, Michael Mozina:

Well the fact of the matter is that mercury is a nerve (and therefore a brain) poison. So he's relating another vaccine to autism? So what is your case against him? And what does he ascribe the autism too? That is to say, what is he claiming is doing the damage?

You look at these vaccines, and often its this incredible witches brew the quacks are throwing into them.

Surely he must have some theory as to what was causing the damage?

 

[Tatyana]

Well yes of course. The vaccines have Mercury, and some of the kids get autism. And when they don't get Mercury vaccines, then fewer of them get autism. Then when the authorities sneak the Mercury back in, more kids get autism and then they say ..... You see .... more kids are getting autism .... So it could not have been the Mercury that we had before.

This has some ways to go as ethical behavior. Particularly when everyone knows that Mercury is a nerve (and therefore a brain) poison.

There are different types of mercury, ethyl and methyl mercury.

Just like alcohol, we can drink one of them (ethyl or ETOH), but methyl alcohol will kill us.

Thiomerosal has been removed from the vaccines for over a decade in the US and much longer in Europe.

There is no link between thiomerosal and autism spectrum disorder.

Millions and millions of pounds have been spent in similar studies to the one I posted below around the world.

It was such a waste, when we could have directed research time and money into looking for the factors that actually are contributing to autism.

Your premise that 'they are killers and know it' is groundless. Someone always blows the whistle in the scientific community.

Andrew Wakefield, on the other hand, sold his scientific morals for ~£ 600, 000.

Mind you, he is probably making a mint off the anti-vaxxers now.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/290/13/1763.full
Association Between Thimerosal-Containing Vaccine and Autism

Context Mercuric compounds are nephrotoxic and neurotoxic at high doses. Thimerosal, a preservative used widely in vaccine formulations, contains ethylmercury. Thus it has been suggested that childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccine could be causally related to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism.

Objective To determine whether vaccination with a thimerosal-containing vaccine is associated with development of autism.

Design, Setting, and Participants Population-based cohort study of all children born in Denmark from January 1, 1990, until December 31, 1996 (N = 467 450) comparing children vaccinated with a thimerosal-containing vaccine with children vaccinated with a thimerosal-free formulation of the same vaccine.

Main Outcome Measures Rate ratio (RR) for autism and other autistic-spectrum disorders, including trend with dose of ethylmercury.

Results During 2 986 654 person-years, we identified 440 autism cases and 787 cases of other autistic-spectrum disorders. The risk of autism and other autistic-spectrum disorders did not differ significantly between children vaccinated with thimerosal-containing vaccine and children vaccinated with thimerosal-free vaccine (RR, 0.85 [95% confidence interval {CI}, 0.60-1.20] for autism; RR, 1.12 [95% CI, 0.88-1.43] for other autistic-spectrum disorders). Furthermore, we found no evidence of a dose-response association (increase in RR per 25 µg of ethylmercury, 0.98 [95% CI, 0.90-1.06] for autism and 1.03 [95% CI, 0.98-1.09] for other autistic-spectrum disorders).

Conclusion The results do not support a causal relationship between childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccines and development of autistic-spectrum disorders.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Well the fact of the matter is that mercury is a nerve (and therefore a brain) poison. So he's relating another vaccine to autism? So what is your case against him? And what does he ascribe the autism too? That is to say, what is he claiming is doing the damage?

You look at these vaccines, and often its this incredible witches brew the quacks are throwing into them.

Surely he must have some theory as to what was causing the damage?

I think you might find a different subforum more ammenable to your thoughts on this subject.

 

[Chodorov]

Right I get it. Play a double game where you say that the special type of Mercury is not poisonous, and then say it wouldn't matter if it was since its been gone ten years. No it hasn't. And there are kids older than ten with autism. So what is your point?

This is just lawyer-like ass-covering talk. Yes your worship. I didn't borrow his car, when I borrowed his car the tank was empty. There was no car. He has no car. When I drove his car back to him I filled the car up with gas.

 

[Chodorov]

I think you might find a different subforum more ammenable to your thoughts on this subject.

The point is that these people have been poisoning kids with vaccines for years. So they've developed these lying memes that you guys trot out every time.

 

[wollery]

Right I get it. Play a double game where you say that the special type of Mercury is not poisonous, and then say it wouldn't matter if it was since its been gone ten years. No it hasn't. And there are kids older than ten with autism. So what is your point?

That autism isn't caused by thiomersal, or mercury. It never was, and studies show that it never was, but the thiomersal was removed as a precaution, because at the time there weren't any detailed studies to show that it wasn't responsible for autism.

It's funny that you don't know who Andrew Wakefield is, because the whole vaccine link to autism was started by Wakefield, and mercury had nothing to do with it, because thiomersal was never used in MMR.

This is just lawyer-like ass-covering talk. Yes your worship. I didn't borrow his car, when I borrowed his car the tank was empty. There was no car. He has no car. When I drove his car back to him I filled the car up with gas.

Do you have any actual evidence that the government keep sneaking mercury back into vaccines?

 

[Soapy Sam]

I'm frankly surprised that anyone who can read would not be familiar with the Wakefield / MMR scandal.
Chodorov - if you are intent on finding wilfull evil in this sad story, I suggest you read the following item http://www.badscience.net/2008/08/the-medias-mmr-hoax/ at Ben Goldacre's "Bad Science" blog.
It will save you buying his book, as this is basically what's in it on this matter.

In a nutshell:- Wakefield had undeclared financial interests in finding a particular result. He found it. He published a very questionable report, which even his collaborators later disowned.
The press accepted it uncritically and turned it into an expensive disaster which has probably resulted in the death of many children and unbelievable stress on parents around the world.
Having persistently ignored contrary evidence, the same journalists are now blaming the whole mess on Wakefield instead of admitting their own shared responsibility.

You- and everyone else - have been persistently lied to. But not by any government.
You have been misled by the wilfull stupidity of journalists who prefer a banner headline to the truth.

I strongly advise you to read the blog item linked above and to follow further links on the "Bad Science" site.
You may well find "It's not as simple as that."

 

[Kid Eager]

The point is that these people have been poisoning kids with vaccines for years. So they've developed these lying memes that you guys trot out every time.

I know this is flogging a dead horse, but there's nothing on telly at the moment, so it's either this or boring repeats:

WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR THE EVIDENCE BEHIND YOUR CLAIM

 

[catsmate]

I'm talking about the government and medical establishment of course. I don't understand this anti-vaxxer business myself. I mean vaccination is an okay concept. But you don't need to jack three shades of Mercury into kids and then pretend that it wasn't you who killed them or hurt their brain.

As has already been pointed out to you thimerosal hasn't been used in childhood vaccines for years, yet children are still being diagnosed with ASD.

And it remains a fact that the closer you are to a coal power station the more likely your boy is to have autism.

I'm sure you'll be supplying the evidence for this claim? It shouldn't be difficult, if it's true.

Why? And are you claiming that there are no kids, older than ten, who have autism?

Is that your claim?

You have no logic do you?

Try again and this time with logic.

So are you claiming that there is no child over 10 who has autism? In fact they keep on putting the Mercury back into vaccines. But thats an whole other story.

A truly pathetic strawman and attempt to divert attention from your lies.

He's not the slimeball. He's trying to stop babies entire lives being ruined by this scandal. The thing is its not too late for everyone. If they knew it was Mercury that was their problem they could be told, the coverup could end, and they could get to it with replacing Mercury with healthier trace metals.

Wakefield patented a single dose vaccine, which wouldn't be used when MMR was the standard regimen. Suddenly he's talking up the dangers of MMR, and being paid to do so. Hmmmm.

There is this myth going around that Thiomersal (or however you spell it) is less toxic then Mercury. This is not the case. Its far more toxic then Mercury. The traditional way we get metals to stop from passing straight through the body is to attach them to proteins or other molecules. The metal itself would never do anywhere near that amount of harm.

Thimerosal. At least try and spell it correctly.
I'm sure you can cite some evidence in support of your claim for the greater toxicity of Thimerosal over metallic mercury? Or are you just lying. Again.

Right I get it. Play a double game where you say that the special type of Mercury is not poisonous, and then say it wouldn't matter if it was since its been gone ten years. No it hasn't. And there are kids older than ten with autism. So what is your point?

It may surprise you, though anyone who understands basic chemistry will know this already, that elements and their compounds have different properties.
For example, Sodium is a soft silver-grey metal, highly reactive, and displaying the common metallic properties. Chlorine is a yellow-green gas with a distinctive choking odour and moderate toxicity. Their principal compound, sodium chloride, is a white crystalline solid displaying different properties.

This is just lawyer-like ass-covering talk. Yes your worship. I didn't borrow his car, when I borrowed his car the tank was empty. There was no car. He has no car. When I drove his car back to him I filled the car up with gas.

Is this rant supposed to mean something?

 

[Capsid]

In the UK, it's spelt thiomersal.

 

[KingofMadCows]

I wish research for the treatment of autism would get some media coverage. No one's even heard of the Lovaas technique.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Surely he must have some theory as to what was causing the damage?

Yes. His theory was that he was being paid a lot of money to say that it was true.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

PZed sorts it out.

 

[Capsid]

Here's the original article

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...7dd2e48571921b33357f3383f647a1f0&searchtype=a

It's all very speculative and associates gut inflammation with ASP.

In the paper it's clearly stated that

We did not prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described.

Yet in the press conference to follow, Wakefield propose that the MMR should be given as individual vaccines.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I know this is flogging a dead horse, but there's nothing on telly at the moment, so it's either this or boring repeats:

WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR THE EVIDENCE BEHIND YOUR CLAIM

one million, one hundred and fifty-five thousand, six hundred forty-three minutes we've been waiting now. It's not coming, I think.

 

[John Jones]

Well yes of course. The vaccines have Mercury, and some of the kids get autism. And when they don't get Mercury vaccines, then fewer of them get autism. Then when the authorities sneak the Mercury back in, more kids get autism and then they say ..... You see .... more kids are getting autism .... So it could not have been the Mercury that we had before.

Fascinating. Now where is that study?

 

[John Jones]

In the UK, it's spelt thiomersal.

I've seen it both ways in the USA

 

[Jeff Corey]

Why would you want those? We already know what Mercury poisoning does. And its not like the government is going to fund studies that gets them in trouble. Its not a hard gig to figure out that if you jack babies with Mercury it will have the effects that Mercury has. Its not complicated.

Yes, it's not complicated, but you are wrong. http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/topics/thiomersal/statement_jul2006/en/index.html

 

[Foster Zygote]

Ya know...

The bad part of something like this is that even though this study has now been completely discredited, there are folks that still believe that MMR is responsible for or at least linked to autism.

All too true. Such people desperately want an answer as to why their child is autistic. Now that they believe they know with certainty, and even have villains to blame, they find it very difficult to let go of that feeling of closure. When what's-his-name, the leader of the big anti-vacc group in the US, was informed of huge public health studies in several nations that indicated no link between vaccination and autism, his response was, "I don't give a [F-bomb]".

 

[Foster Zygote]

I'm talking about the government and medical establishment of course. I don't understand this anti-vaxxer business myself. I mean vaccination is an okay concept. But you don't need to jack three shades of Mercury into kids and then pretend that it wasn't you who killed them or hurt their brain.

Right now a campaign is afoot to reign in coal power on the grounds of the Mercury plumes they produce. And it remains a fact that the closer you are to a coal power station the more likely your boy is to have autism.

Do you have any dental fillings?