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Results of the Mavi Marmara Attack

Ive tried to be patient but you are habitual. Welcome to ignore.

You mean you got tired of dodging the arguments. Welcome to the big DODGE. Now you can keep your head buried in the sand and not have to deal with the arguments.

I'll always challenge lies or is that now wrong?

Except for lies like the ones I just listed and you decide ignoring is better. Maybe challenge means avoiding now?
 
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you can do it by starting a thread about the derail, thus not contributing to derail in this thread. it's quite simple. Strt a thread about the derail, or link to prior thread about with the same topic of the derail. And then contribute to the substance of this thread. that way you can respond to the the off-topic comment without derailing the thread. And now I have to apologize fr contributing to yet another one of your derail attempts.
 
you can do it by starting a thread about the derail, thus not contributing to derail in this thread. it's quite simple. Strt a thread about the derail, or link to prior thread about with the same topic of the derail. And then contribute to the substance of this thread. that way you can respond to the the off-topic comment without derailing the thread. And now I have to apologize fr contributing to yet another one of your derail attempts.
no worries, I'll be sure to keep an eye out so you follow your own preaching eh?
 
(Sigh)

The thread is only a "derail" if someone believes the purpose of some of those replying was to discuss the Mavi Marmara attack. In reality the purpose is just to blame Israel for something, so we get the usual conspiracy theory "logic" in these threads:

"Let's talk about the Marmara attack."
"It proves Israel is evil!"
"Actually, the claims of those on the ship are clearly unreliable and prove nothing like that."
"Er.... never mind! Israel is evil anyway!"

This is why these threads keep moving through the usual list of "proofs of Israeli evil", no matter what their starting point is. Since most of their "proofs" prove nothing of the sort (e.g., Israeli immigration policy is practically the same as that of many other countries, Israel's reaction to years of bombings by Hamas was, if anything, far more moderate than any other country would have done, etc.), and those who do show Israel does wrong -- which is sometimes does -- hardly justify the insensate hatred of Israel they clearly exhibit, the threads keep moving from one false or underwhelming "proof of Israeli evil" to the next.

These threads are so long since they keep telling the same lies about Israel again and again, and thus need to be corrected again and again.

But it's a pointless excercise. The best thing to do, which will be my policy from now on, is to simply abandon the thread once the usual gang shifts the subject from the point of the thread to "look, here's some other reason Israel is evil!" territory.
 
And put me down for not being bothered by Ireland actively encourages the Irish diaspora to return to Ireland.

Besides, The Fool said the only reason anybody would oppose immigration is bigotry. So why is he so bothered with Jews emigrating to Palestine while not showing the least concern with Irish-Americans, say, emigrating to Ireland?

Jewish emigration is bad. All other emigration is good and noble.
 
you can do it by starting a thread about the derail, thus not contributing to derail in this thread. it's quite simple. Strt a thread about the derail, or link to prior thread about with the same topic of the derail. And then contribute to the substance of this thread. that way you can respond to the the off-topic comment without derailing the thread. And now I have to apologize fr contributing to yet another one of your derail attempts.
what about "skeptics" constant posts about the voices in his head telling him israel is evil.....derail?
 
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Besides, The Fool said the only reason anybody would oppose immigration is bigotry. So why is he so bothered with Jews emigrating to Palestine while not showing the least concern with Irish-Americans, say, emigrating to Ireland?

Jewish emigration is bad. All other emigration is good and noble.

go marksman!!! As I am not to challenge this irrelevant lie in this thread show us all how even handed you are....scold the derailer!!! :)
 
can't help you if you can't see a difference between citizenship and ethnicity....really can't help you.

Of course I can, but I don't see how it's relevant. In both cases the countries offer preferential citizenship to some people but not others. You just need a pretext to say it's okay in one instance, but not in the other.


no you don't....you do not believe that non jews should be equal to Jews in israel. You specifically support this concept that Israel is "the home of some of its citizens".

Not at all. I think Israel should be (and is) home to all it's citizens, but since you seem very sure I think otherwise, you must have a quote of me saying so. Do you?

I don't think that's mutually exclusive to the "Right of Return" for Jewish people. If you disagree, feel free to explain how.

not really interested in going off on a wild goose chase with you trying to determine what your opinion is.

(Yawn)

you rejoice in Israels right to be discriminatory.....you always have and always will.....why must we go through this tap dancing session every time its mentioned?

Because your idea of "discriminatory" doesn't ever seem to stand up under scrutiny.
 
shall I point out the glaringly obvious difference?


ok, why not.


Ireland has preferential treatment for ancestors of irish citizens to come back.....I have no problem with that.

Israel has preferential treatment for ancestors of Israeli citizens to come back.....ooops, hang on....


Ireland is the home of the irish....not "some of the irish"


do you believe that Jews should have equal rights everywhere in the world that they live? I do.....you don't. You would be disgusted with the prospect of jews being second class citizens of any nation.......not so concerned if its arabs.
Is there a point to this rant?
 
can't help you if you can't see a difference between citizenship and ethnicity....really can't help you.
A friend of mne got Irish citizenship just by spending 2 weeks in Ireland, the first and only time he ever set foot in the place. His father wasn't from Ireland either, nor is he an Irish citizen. His grandfather had left when he was a young boy.

He got Irish citizenship just because he was ethnically Irish. Just like ethnic Jews can become citizens of Israel.
 
A friend of mne got Irish citizenship just by spending 2 weeks in Ireland, the first and only time he ever set foot in the place. His father wasn't from Ireland either, nor is he an Irish citizen. His grandfather had left when he was a young boy.

He got Irish citizenship just because he was ethnically Irish. Just like ethnic Jews can become citizens of Israel.

Ireland the apartheid state. It's much easier to immigrate to Australia if you're from England. More apartheid. England makes it easier for Indians to get in. Apartheid.
 
Besides, The Fool said the only reason anybody would oppose immigration is bigotry. So why is he so bothered with Jews emigrating to Palestine while not showing the least concern with Irish-Americans, say, emigrating to Ireland?

Jewish emigration is bad. All other emigration is good and noble.

And the flip-flopping. First he seems to condemn the Irish policy saying nobody is going to apologize for it, then he's got to explain why it's "different" from the Israeli policy when he figures out nobody is offended by it, then he drops the whole Irish angle saying, "you sign off on Israeli discrimination" rant when he can't give a good reason why preferential immigration is bad in one case but not bad in another.

The only consistent opinion is that Israel is bad. Everything else revolves around that.
 
no worries, I'll be sure to keep an eye out so you follow your own preaching eh?

Sure will. Everybody, please derailing the thread. I'm sure when the Fool gets back, he'll appreciate the civility we show one another the interim.

And back on topic, According to the NY Times, Gazans still have to smuggle goods to create an economy.
-NY Times Article
 
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Ireland the apartheid state. It's much easier to immigrate to Australia if you're from England. More apartheid. England makes it easier for Indians to get in. Apartheid.

No. Apartheid is when people are under the power of a state, but seperated off by that state, without a vote, based on their race. The argument in favour of Israel seems to be that if they do everything else ok, we can just overlook the apartheid. Moral relativism.
 
a_u_p,

We're all trying so hard to stay on topic. Please join us in that endavor!

and back on topic...
As of yesterday Egypt was still preventing the most recent flotilla from reaching Gaza, according to Jordanian protesters. So much for Thunder's proclamation that the land blockade was over. I'm sure when the Fool returns, he'll acknowledge that he had been misinformed to think Egypt was now allowing free access to goods to Gaza.
 
No. Apartheid is when people are under the power of a state, but seperated off by that state, without a vote, based on their race.

Is it based on their race? Or is it based on 60 years of war? 'Cause from where I'm lookin' there are plenty of Arabs who are citizens of Israel who don't apply. That would seem to indicate it's not based on race.

The argument in favour of Israel seems to be that if they do everything else ok, we can just overlook the apartheid. Moral relativism.

No. The argument in favor of Israel is that all these supposed human rights violations only make sense if you work really really hard to remove all sense of context in which they happen.
 
No. Apartheid is when people are under the power of a state, but seperated off by that state, without a vote, based on their race. The argument in favour of Israel seems to be that if they do everything else ok, we can just overlook the apartheid. Moral relativism.
Could also answer these baseless allegations in the other threads where this has been brought up. But whenever we get into the nitty gritty of this allegation and this failed attempt at correlating Israel with South Africa, you (among others) abandon the threads in question.

Carry on this argument in these other threads and cease with the derails...
 
Guys, there's already a thread about whether Israel is an apartheid state. (Actually, at least two.)

But only one thread about whether the flotilla killed the blockade. For example, here is an article about some Iranian diplomats planning to visit Gaza through the Egypt crossing. (The article states the Iranians still blame Egypt, along with Israel, for refusing to allow their own aid convoy to reach Gaza.)
 
No. Apartheid is when people are under the power of a state, but seperated off by that state, without a vote, based on their race. The argument in favour of Israel seems to be that if they do everything else ok, we can just overlook the apartheid. Moral relativism.
Israel doesn't even fit the definition of apartheid you just cited.
 

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