Merged Rep. Giffords Shot In Tucson

I've looked over numerous threads on this shooting and they all seem to devolve into some evil right wing vitriol as causing or contributing to this incident.

Is there any evidence the perp listened to or subscribed to any right wing views?

When info first started coming out, he was referred to as a left wing odd ball, as far as I remember.
 
I'm fine with the upbeat attitude, but sometimes the applause is just odd:

"...a former marine instinctively tried to shield his wife from the gunfire."

Loud applause.

I don't think it's inappropriate and I'm not demanding it should be otherwise, but it's odd to applaud when Obama just described a husband and wife being murdered.
 
It is a little surreal. But I think they are applauding the memory of the people who died - that's the way I read it.
 
It is a little surreal. But I think they are applauding the memory of the people who died - that's the way I read it.

Oh, I agree. I'm not trying to condemn the situation, it's just that it makes for an odd mood.

...this last section where Obama discussed the young girl and the Gifford's condition was very powerful.
 
Well, I realize there are still people sitting in prison in Cuba without access to a lawyer and with no knowledge of the charges against them, but for the first time in a while I heard the voice of the man I was excited to vote for as president.

That's Obama at his best.
 
Well, I realize there are still people sitting in prison in Cuba without access to a lawyer and with no knowledge of the charges against them, but for the first time in a while I heard the voice of the man I was excited to vote for as president.

That's Obama at his best.

No doubt.
 
I've looked over numerous threads on this shooting and they all seem to devolve into some evil right wing vitriol as causing or contributing to this incident.

Is there any evidence the perp listened to or subscribed to any right wing views?
Yes, and it's been posted. Loughner's writings include some recent right wing anti-government themes.

IWhen info first started coming out, he was referred to as a left wing odd ball, as far as I remember.
One high school friend said he was a pot smoker and a liberal in high school. No one else made that assessment. It was before he developed symptoms of mental illness.


I still don't think people are clear on the differences between a confused delusional schizophrenic who incorporates current events into their delusions, and an extremist whose beliefs are beyond rational like McVeigh and Nichols.

Here's an example of schizophrenics incorporating the world around them into their delusions:
[The internet as a delusional topic in paranoid schizophrenia]
Abstract
Two patients with paranoid schizophrenia had delusions involving the internet. Additionally, one of them experienced computer databases as being distributed to other people in a phenomenologically similar way to that encountered in thought broadcasting. The presented cases illustrate the historical association of the contents of delusions in schizophrenia.
What does this show? That delusions of the mentally ill reflect their surroundings, not just internal content.


Similarly there's a difference between a fanatic following Palin's map and going after the people targeted, and, a much larger situation of group mentality where lots of people are contributing to an atmosphere of government fear mongering. The reason Palin is being criticized here, at least in my opinion, is her refusal to apologize for the map which specifically named the target of this tragedy as being in the crosshairs. It's Palin's denial, along with more than a few additional right wingers like Limbaugh and O'Reilly that has put the focus on their personal actions as contributing to these murders.

If Palin had been more sensitive and said something like, she didn't intend for there to be consequences for the map like this, the focus would be on the overall fear mongering, not on Palin. But she didn't. Like many people here, she refuses to believe her campaign talk has been over the line. But it has. Her continual ranting the death panel lie is a better example than the map, in my opinion. The death panel lie is clear dishonest fear mongering. The map is more in the line of poor choices of rhetoric.


Here's a little more about schizophrenics who end up acting on their delusions that is consistent with the incitement the fear mongering would contribute to:
Acting on delusions. II: The phenomenological correlates of acting on delusions.
acting was associated with: being aware of evidence which supported the belief and with having actively sought out such evidence;
(among other things)

Loughner wrote about delusions the right wing fear mongering would certainly have been reinforcing.

Violence in schizophrenia: role of hallucinations and delusions.
Patients in the violent group were also more likely to report that the delusion made them feel angry, while those in the non-violent group were more likely to report that the delusion made them feel elated. The results suggest specific aspects of the phenomenologies of hallucinations and delusions that should be clinically assessed to determine the likelihood of violence as a result of such psychotic symptoms.

When you stir up anger as an incessant campaign strategy there can be all sorts of unintended negative consequences from racism to homophobia to anti-government sentiments including acting on those beliefs. And the more unstable the person, the more easily that person can be pushed over the edge.
 
The shooter Jared Lee Loughner said:

"Government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar"

Sadly, some Democrats in Congress are striving to prove his insane rants to be right...

In the wake of the attempted assassination of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., and the murder of federal Judge John Roll, Rep. Robert Brady, D-Pa., told The New York Times that he plans legislation that would ban language or symbols that could be perceived as threatening federal officials and members of Congress.

Pointing to an existing federal law that criminalizes threats against the president and vice-president, Brady suggests the same provisions should apply to others in the federal government. But he goes further, saying his bill would mean “You can’t put bull’s-eyes or crosshairs on a United States congressman or a federal official.”


http://www.examiner.com/legislative-watch-in-national/brady-to-initiate-house-bill-to-protect-congress-against-threats
 
My guess is he'll now get a very thorough mental and physical health exam he should have gotten earlier.

But I'm curious how a frontal lobe tumor would cause disorganized thought and paranoid delusions?

He says that trees had turned blue and the sky orange for him, according to friends, and said he could hear smells. That is an organic brain defect, or so it seems to me.
 
He says that trees had turned blue and the sky orange for him, according to friends, and said he could hear smells. That is an organic brain defect, or so it seems to me.

Synesthesia. This guy's wiring is really messed up. That picture of his face says it all. Scary.

Synesthesia doesn't mean insane but this guys seems to be suffering from every neural anomaly known to man.
 
MattusMaximus blog said:
... What this shows is, in my view, the fact that there is nothing inherently special about those who label themselves as “skeptics”. We are irrational & emotional creatures just like the rest of humanity, and in times of great stress we also feel the sometimes overwhelming pressure to dismiss our better, more rational natures in a desperate attempt to grab onto something, anything which seems like it might provide us with some measure of comfort. But, as we skeptics are wont to say, simply because something feels right doesn’t mean it’s real. And thus, simply because there are those who view the world through an overly-political lens doesn’t mean that reality conforms to that view. ...

I've been following this thread as it's progressed, and I have to say that you've been technically correct in your assessment of the accusations flying around, and you would have caught me out if I'd posted earlier.:o

But with the luxury of a few days reflection, I've come to the realization that you missed the larger point about the partisan bickering here. Ill feelings between the left and right have been festering just under the surface for some time and had to erupt sooner or later. It's too bloody sad beyond words that it took a brutal act of insanity for the dam to burst open, but burst open it had to do. I think that's why your exhortations to stop and wait for evidence fell mostly on deaf ears. This thread is only nominally about Saturday's shooting; the real subject is the deep political divide in the U.S., and to resolve that, Americans need to undergo a national catharsis, a Civil War of words like is happening in this thread (which, I've noticed, is a microcosm of the whole country; the debate is playing out everywhere just like it is here).

Just my two cents, with all due respect.
 
I think the evidence is starting to show that this guy was a drug addict atheist who attacked because he wanted to create support for progressives who have been egging him on to attack by implying that the best way to destroy the tea party is to make it appear that they are violent.
 
I think the evidence is starting to show that this guy was a drug addict atheist who attacked because he wanted to create support for progressives who have been egging him on to attack by implying that the best way to destroy the tea party is to make it appear that they are violent.

What evidence?
 
Yes, and it's been posted. Loughner's writings include some recent right wing anti-government themes.

One high school friend said he was a pot smoker and a liberal in high school. No one else made that assessment. It was before he developed symptoms of mental illness.
Thank you. I saw another thread specifically addressing my questions after I posted here.
 

Back
Top Bottom