Merged Rep. Giffords Shot In Tucson

[MattusMaximus]

LoL. Your whole post only fans the flames. A poetic post by Newton's Trino will never stop the hatred Americans feel for themselves. Your country is doomed.

There will be no wake up call. Somewhere, on some forum, there is some fool right now, calling for an end to the heated rhetoric, all the while blaming liberals and America haters, and pointing out all the left wing travesties he can google up. And they will always have the "14 million babies murdered every year" to fall back on if they can't find any incidents of violence. You trotted out a dozen homicides at best, and still tried to make it appear as if it is a crisis of the right... because you want it to be that way.

I stopped caring about the trainwreck America is headed for a couple of years ago. I simply learned to love and embrace the doom about to fall upon it. You think this issue is hot, just wait until some Mexican drug cartel shoots up a white family in Arizona. You ain't seen nothing yet.

I love to see the sad faces here on these forums and elsewhere, because it is a fraction of the pain you will all be feeling for your pathetic little empire when it really starts to fall apart. Your nationalism and belief in the American system "flawed, but still the best we have" is such a huge part of all your egos, you have no idea how much of that will be smashed to pieces. In fact, I'd dare say the current recession/depression we are in now has less to do with economic circumstance, and more to do with a nation full of divorced, depressed people, disconnected, doped up, debt ridden people, miserable and realizing they will never attain the American dreams they had as children. Why work when everything you have is taken away, sometimes more than once, in your life?

There are more twenty somethings living with their parents now than there has been in the past century. There is no hope for them. There are no jobs or careers that don't include fries or paper or plastic or a blue vest with a smiley button on it... and that just doesn't jibe with their reality show driven fantasies.

There will be no recovery. There will only be misery and anger and scapegoats, mark my words. There certainly will be no "wake-up calls" that will once again galvanize the American people. 9/11 was the last chance for that, and it was blown by extremist politicians with dangerous policies fashioned in fear and ignorance paraded as "moderates".

Polarization wins votes, and obscures the real issues. That's your reality. It has been shown on this board, and it has been shown all over the internet with this incident. Everyone is chomping at the bit to get at this guy and paint him as their opposition, and believe you me, there is no way this incident will tone down the rhetoric. In 3 months, the vitriol will be higher than it ever was.

Ain't chaos great? Without it, nothing would ever change. Just embrace it.

Lol, gasoline, meet fire.

I'll be honest, it is obvious to me this kid was pretty left oriented, and a CT'er. Kind of like I am. Kind of like Joe stack was. But go ahead and keep up the polarizing B.S. seriously, I have no love left for my fellow Americans, as you can plainly see, and all this in-fighting absolutely delights me.

Wow, I thought what I saw on this thread yesterday was bad... and then, the Joker showed up

 

[MattusMaximus]

I assume there is a whole lot of finger pointing and grandstanding going on. Lets just stop for a moment and recognize how sick our society has become.

You have no idea, Biscuit. Some of the people posting here have shown humanity at its near-worst.

Btw, I'm sorry for your loss. Take care of yourself.

 

[One Tenth]

Why?

I realize that Secular Humanism is compatible with a belief in a god(s), it's just that I've never met someone who self-identified as both a secular humanist and an atheist.

 

[tyr_13]

You have no idea, Biscuit. Some of the people posting here have shown humanity at its near-worst.

Btw, I'm sorry for your loss. Take care of yourself.

I almost want to compile a list of people/organizations/ideas people are trying to tie to this shooting. Palin, the NRA, Commies, 2nd Amendment, Nazis, etc, etc, etc...

 

[Biscuit]

What on earth are you on about? I said I was a secular humanist so don't call me an atheist. Then you said

I thought secular humanists were generally atheists.

I asked why and you said

I realize that Secular Humanism is compatible with a belief in a god(s), it's just that I've never met someone who self-identified as both a secular humanist and an atheist.

Why would you think secular humanists are generally atheists if you have never met a self identified secular humanist/atheist?

Also what does this have to do with the price of rice in china?


Authorities are now saying they believe this was a premeditated assassination attempt.

 

[Biscuit]

I almost want to compile a list of people/organizations/ideas people are trying to tie to this shooting. Palin, the NRA, Commies, 2nd Amendment, Nazis, etc, etc, etc...

Well that will be a very long list! At the end of the Day Jared appears to have acted alone but not within a vacuum. He is a product of our community and our society. Someone this disturbed should have been given help.

I would like to hear from his parents. Not to blame them but to hear what they thought of their son.

 

[One Tenth]

Sorry, I meant to say that I've never met someone who self-identified as a secular humanist and theist.

 

[Biscuit]

Ahhhh. Well I am just a secular humanist, not an atheist.

 

[Thunder]

I almost want to compile a list of people/organizations/ideas people are trying to tie to this shooting. Palin, the NRA, Commies, 2nd Amendment, Nazis, etc, etc, etc...

Here's the guy's list of favorite books. I'm sure we can come up with his precise political affiliation by analyzing it.

anti-Authoritarian books are in red, pro-Authoritarian are in green.

Animal Farm
Brave New World
The Wizard Of OZ
Aesop Fables
The Odyssey
Alice Adventures Into Wonderland
Fahrenheit 451
Peter Pan
To Kill A Mockingbird
We The Living
Phantom Toll Booth
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest
Pulp
Through The Looking Glass
The Communist Manifesto
Siddhartha
The Old Man And The Sea
Gulliver's Travels
Mein Kampf
The Republic
Meno

 

[case#46cw39]

He was the acquaintance of mine and yes he was engaged and damn nice guy too. I only hung out with him at a few concerts and some holiday parties and I know it s generic in the wake of a man's death to say it but he really was a nice guy.

Very sorry about your friend.

Another victim not to forget is the young girl Christina Taylor Green, grand daughter of Phillies legend Dallas Green. Someone on Facebook is trying to start a "Faces of Hope Movement" in her memory:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/No-More-Unjust-War/120338904702676?v=wall
"Christina Taylor Green, nine-year-old victim in today's Tucson shootings, once was an infant designated to be a "Face of Hope" by virtue of her birth on September 11, 2001. She was one of the children born on 9/11, reports Tucson blogger David Abie Morales. And she is thereby featured in the book by Christine Pisera Naman, entitled Faces of Hope, Babies Born on 9/11, dedicated to all the mothers who gave birth and to their babies born on the day the World Trade Towers in New York City were taken down by an act of terrorism."
http://www.allvoices.com/contribute...reen-born-on-911-died-today-by-a-gunmans-hand

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Sorry I stopped giving updates on this situation yesterday. After my last post post I received another texted from my friend and it contained the name of another victim. This victim was an acquaintance of mine. While I did not know him well I knew him and it was too much for me to continue providing info.

We often joke in Tucson that you can't go anywhere without running into someone who knows you or knows someone who knows you. We don't play 6 degrees of separation its 2 or 3. Its was inevitable that if 18 people were to get shot I would know one of them.

I haven't read the last 20 some pages but I will restate that my friend providing info was informed that a second suspect was arrested. Gun was glock 9mm. All other details are, I am sure, available through the regular channels.

I assume there is a whole lot of finger pointing and grandstanding going on. Lets just stop for a moment and recognize how sick our society has become.

I don't think our society is sick, just a small part of it, and it probably isn't new.

But I'm sorry for all the people hurt or killed yesterday and for their friends and families.

 

[Biscuit]

Here's the guy's list of favorite books. I'm sure we can come up with his precise political affiliation by analyzing it.

anti-Authoritarian books are in red, pro-Authoritarian are in green.

Animal Farm
Brave New World
The Wizard Of OZ
Aesop Fables
The Odyssey
Alice Adventures Into Wonderland
Fahrenheit 451
Peter Pan
To Kill A Mockingbird
We The Living
Phantom Toll Booth
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest
Pulp
Through The Looking Glass
The Communist Manifesto
Siddhartha
The Old Man And The Sea
Gulliver's Travels
Mein Kampf
The Republic
Meno

That is honestly a list of books that nearly every high school kid in america reads as a part of english class. Add in the Bell jar and Catcher in the Rye and you have it set. I have my high school copies of most of those on my bookshelf right now.

Mien Kampf and the communist Manifesto would be the exceptions but are also books that I read back then as do most of the kids I knew. I hate to sound elitist but its not a very mature reading list, it doesn't betray a great deal of creativity on behalf of the owner. Not sure I am saying this right. It looks more like a list of books one is told to read rather than a list of books one wants to read.

 

[Nerd]

LoL. Your whole post only fans the flames. A poetic post by Newton's Trino will never stop the hatred Americans feel for themselves. Your country is doomed.

There will be no wake up call. Somewhere, on some forum, there is some fool right now, calling for an end to the heated rhetoric, all the while blaming liberals and America haters, and pointing out all the left wing travesties he can google up. And they will always have the "14 million babies murdered every year" to fall back on if they can't find any incidents of violence. You trotted out a dozen homicides at best, and still tried to make it appear as if it is a crisis of the right... because you want it to be that way.

I stopped caring about the trainwreck America is headed for a couple of years ago. I simply learned to love and embrace the doom about to fall upon it. You think this issue is hot, just wait until some Mexican drug cartel shoots up a white family in Arizona. You ain't seen nothing yet.

I love to see the sad faces here on these forums and elsewhere, because it is a fraction of the pain you will all be feeling for your pathetic little empire when it really starts to fall apart. Your nationalism and belief in the American system "flawed, but still the best we have" is such a huge part of all your egos, you have no idea how much of that will be smashed to pieces. In fact, I'd dare say the current recession/depression we are in now has less to do with economic circumstance, and more to do with a nation full of divorced, depressed people, disconnected, doped up, debt ridden people, miserable and realizing they will never attain the American dreams they had as children. Why work when everything you have is taken away, sometimes more than once, in your life?

There are more twenty somethings living with their parents now than there has been in the past century. There is no hope for them. There are no jobs or careers that don't include fries or paper or plastic or a blue vest with a smiley button on it... and that just doesn't jibe with their reality show driven fantasies.

There will be no recovery. There will only be misery and anger and scapegoats, mark my words. There certainly will be no "wake-up calls" that will once again galvanize the American people. 9/11 was the last chance for that, and it was blown by extremist politicians with dangerous policies fashioned in fear and ignorance paraded as "moderates".

Polarization wins votes, and obscures the real issues. That's your reality. It has been shown on this board, and it has been shown all over the internet with this incident. Everyone is chomping at the bit to get at this guy and paint him as their opposition, and believe you me, there is no way this incident will tone down the rhetoric. In 3 months, the vitriol will be higher than it ever was.

Ain't chaos great? Without it, nothing would ever change. Just embrace it.



Lol, gasoline, meet fire.

I'll be honest, it is obvious to me this kid was pretty left oriented, and a CT'er. Kind of like I am. Kind of like Joe stack was. But go ahead and keep up the polarizing B.S. seriously, I have no love left for my fellow Americans, as you can plainly see, and all this in-fighting absolutely delights me.

So, the murder of a little girl delights you? Your mantra of 'chaos' is disgusting.

As you said, you have no love for your fellow Americans and you are positively sure that America is heading toward doom & gloom.
Why are you still here then? Get out.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Here's the guy's list of favorite books. I'm sure we can come up with his precise political affiliation by analyzing it.

....

I think people are missing the point about the political discourse contributing to this incident and political discourse contributing to an extremist right winger (or other extremist like Tiller's murderer) acting out. They are both hazards of violent metaphors being used on a daily basis just to win votes, but they are different in many ways.

This guy was probably psychotic. He wasn't an extremist. You won't see some cohesive organized thought process espousing extreme Tea Party or other right wing views. But that doesn't mean hearing the rhetoric from the media wasn't affecting him nonetheless. His disorganized thought ramblings on YouTube, MySpace, and now found in papers at his home indicate he was likely incorporating some of the political discourse into his psychotic thought. He did indeed target this Congresswoman. It was not random.*


*I bolded this because the thread is so long one cannot read everything. I think it's time for those leaning right wing to admit the rhetoric was likely involved.

 

[Puppycow]

Sorry if this has been posted already, but the "second suspect" turned out to just be a taxi driver.

http://www.frumforum.com/second-suspect-cleared

Investigators said that the second man was a taxi driver who drove the suspected gunman to the scene. Upon arriving there, the passenger said he did not have change and he and the taxi driver went into the supermarket for change and the two then walked out together and separated.

 

[truethat]

I think people are missing the point about the political discourse contributing to this incident and political discourse contributing to an extremist right winger (or other extremist like Tiller's murderer) acting out. They are both hazards of violent metaphors being used on a daily basis just to win votes, but they are different in many ways.

This guy was probably psychotic. He wasn't an extremist. You won't see some cohesive organized thought process espousing extreme Tea Party or other right wing views. But that doesn't mean hearing the rhetoric from the media wasn't affecting him nonetheless. His disorganized thought ramblings on YouTube, MySpace, and now found in papers at his home indicate he was likely incorporating some of the political discourse into his psychotic thought. He did indeed target this Congresswoman. It was not random.*


*I bolded this because the thread is so long one cannot read everything. I think it's time for those leaning right wing to admit the rhetoric was likely involved.

I don't see how you can say that the rhetoric is involved? He's schizophrenic if what I'm reading is correct. Schizophrenic people say all sorts of things. We had one guy here in NYC years ago just push a woman onto the subway tracks where she was decapitated.

To me the issue of Palin's incendiary contributions to the public rhetoric are in and of themselves something to take a look at. If you start insisting that Palin is somehow culpable here when she isn't you will simply validate her complaints that she is being made a scapegoat in the media.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't see how you can say that the rhetoric is involved? He's schizophrenic if what I'm reading is correct. Schizophrenic people say all sorts of things. We had one guy here in NYC years ago just push a woman onto the subway tracks where she was decapitated.

To me the issue of Palin's incendiary contributions to the public rhetoric are in and of themselves something to take a look at. If you start insisting that Palin is somehow culpable here when she isn't you will simply validate her complaints that she is being made a scapegoat in the media.

His disorganized ramblings were nonetheless full of Tea Party themes including the business of supposed unconstitutional laws the Tea Party has been claiming are being passed. And who is going on about the Fed and currency? Ron Paul. Loughner's words are eerily similar to Ron Paul's. How many schizophrenics have you heard of with these particular political themes in their delusions? It is common to be paranoid of the government in schizophrenic themes, but the Constitution and the gold standard? Not so much.

And you have the sheriff of the county saying how pervasive the violent rhetoric has been in his state recently.


Then there is the issue of it shouldn't matter, this event should still be a wake up call.

 

[babycondor]

Quote:
"We have nothing whatsoever to do with this," Palin aide Rebecca Mansour told the talk radio host Tammy Bruce in an interview. "We never ever, ever intended it to be gun sights. It was simply cross-hairs like you'd see on maps," she said, suggesting that it is a "surveyor's symbol."

Methinks she doth protest too much.

 

[babycondor]

I don't see how you can say that the rhetoric is involved? He's schizophrenic if what I'm reading is correct. Schizophrenic people say all sorts of things. We had one guy here in NYC years ago just push a woman onto the subway tracks where she was decapitated.

To me the issue of Palin's incendiary contributions to the public rhetoric are in and of themselves something to take a look at. If you start insisting that Palin is somehow culpable here when she isn't you will simply validate her complaints that she is being made a scapegoat in the media.

I disagree. She DOES need to be held accountable for her incendiary contributions, exactly because the sum of such contributions (by herself and others) creates the prevailing zeitgeist of fear and hate, by which all of us, and most dangerously the mentally ill person with access to firearms, are DIRECTLY influenced.

 

[Thunder]

Quote:
"We have nothing whatsoever to do with this," Palin aide Rebecca Mansour told the talk radio host Tammy Bruce in an interview. "We never ever, ever intended it to be gun sights. It was simply cross-hairs like you'd see on maps," she said, suggesting that it is a "surveyor's symbol."

Methinks she doth protest too much.

maps..huh?

Mrs. gun-toting....moos killin'....machine gun' firin....former Governor of Alaska who quit her job?

Me no tink so.