Merged Rep. Giffords Shot In Tucson

case#46cw39 said:
Why would I hope so? Will that tarnish the entirety of a political side? What does it actually prove? It has long been proven that both the right and left, alcohol drinkers and I guess even pot smokers can commit violent crime. I'm just reporting what he said.
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He said a lot of things. Any particular reason why you chose his nonsensical writings about currency as a possible "political objective"?
 
UWdude said:
He said a lot of things. Any particular reason why you chose his nonsensical writings about currency as a possible "political objective"?
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Yeah I should have made that more clear that was from one post, just those two lines written like that:

"Is it possible that politicians are taking advantage of the money system?

It's possible to overthrow a government and change the currency."

Overthrowing the government is the act of violence and changing the currency is the political object, and he was clearly thinking about this from the piece of evidence we have (if he is erad3) - and that makes it a possible psychological motivation.
 
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He seems to have explained his political beliefs in this video, from 3:09 onwards:


I think it's okay to transcribe this much of it:

The majority of citizens in the United States of America have never read the United States of America's Constitution.

You don't have to accept the federalist laws.

Nonetheless, read the United States of America's Constitution to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws.

You're literate, listener?

If the property owners and government officials are no longer in ownership of their land and laws from a revolution then the revolutionary's from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.

The property owners and government officials are no longer in ownership of their land and laws from a revolution.

Thus, the revolutionary's from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.

In conclusion, reading the second United States Constitution, I can't trust the current government because of the ratifications: The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar.

No! I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed by gold and silver!

No! I won't trust in God!

What's government if words don't have meaning?
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Except for the "i won't trust in god" part, it's sounds very much like tea party rhetoric.
 
I posted that, not as something partisan but because people had been arguing about what his political views might be. I don't want to be interpreted as trying to score a point. :(

I would post it even if his views aligned with mine.
 
Thunder said:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=492&pictureid=4183[/qimg]

Fascinating, how Gifford's target is now gone. You can go to the map and move over the targets, and get a name.

And the list of candidates is no longer available.

Sarah Palin, you are a real bitch. I hope you are happy with what's been done.


rifle scopes.....targeting politicians you don't like. is this NOT encitement to assault/murder? sure looks that way to me.

and why the **** is this map even still up????????????????????
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[parky_hat_ON]

I'll tell you whose responsible for this. President Barack Hussein Obama, that's who. It's HIS violent, eliminationist rhetoric that has set the tome for this kind of thing. he is the one with the greatest authority, the biggest soapbox, the one whose words have the greatest impact.

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” - Barack Obama, June 14th 2008

"I know whose ass to kick" - Barack Obama, June 7th 2010

"I want you to argue with them, get in their face..." - Barack Obama, September 18th 2008

"I don't want the folks who made this mess to do any talking, I want them out of the way." - Barack Obama, August 2009

“I know they are gearing up for a fight as we speak. My message to them is this: so am I." - Barack Obama, February 28th 2009

This is all Obamas fault. He has blood on his hands, he is a murderer.

[/parkyhat]

On a slightly more serious note... I have some limited experience doing volunteer work with the mentally ill. I saw this guys rants on youtube before they were taken down. His word usage has more of the "word salad" quality of a paranoid schizophrenic than the ludicrous, yet internally consistent fantasies of the more common political extremists we see in the CT/911CT section.

Sarah Palins map is as innocuous as Obamas rhetoric and Harry Reids and Nancy Pelosis angry name-calling. None of them are responsible for this guy. There's no magic spell that Palin, Obama or anyone can cast that can reach out and alter some random strangers dopamine levels from across the continent.

Participants in a critical thinkers forum should already know this.


EDIT: Appreantly youtube has not taken his videos down yet.
 
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Democracy Simulator said:
I don't fully understand why this is already politicized to such an extent. I find the politicization extremely bizarre and distasteful.
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Seems predictable that some would see political figure Giffords as a POSSIBLE victim of a political movement that's made copious veiled and unveiled threats in the past couple years.

But if you know anything about mental illness, you understand this guy is in all likelihood a paranoid schizophrenic, with reality testing that's probably so poor that "tea party" may not have factored into his motivation at all. "Liberal" could be his self-label one day, then "Libertarian" the next day, after having some random psychotic "epiphany". I mean the guy claims Mein Kampf as a favorite read but allegedly digs Hendrix too (possible, but seemingly a little paradoxical).

For all we know he was mostly egged on by some obscure piece of graffiti in a public bathroom and took it to be a sign that he had to plan to "take over the government and change the currency". He might not be able to focus long enough to sit through a fraction of a tea party speech; might have limited interest. Flag burning has been a national past time enjoyed by certain people, well before these recent "tea partiers".

Gov't officials are constantly in danger of assassination. The danger didn't start w/tea party rhetoric and it won't end once the tea party hype dies out. In absence of protesters someone will always think they can "change the currency". Just saying: speculating about this guy's party affiliation or political allegiance is going to be little more than tea leaf reading (yah! pun!) when the guy has chronically disorganized thinking.
 
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Sword_Of_Truth said:
[parky_hat_ON]

I'll tell you whose responsible for this. President Barack Hussein Obama, that's who. It's HIS violent, eliminationist rhetoric that has set the tome for this kind of thing. he is the one with the greatest authority, the biggest soapbox, the one whose words have the greatest impact.

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” - Barack Obama, June 14th 2008

"I know whose ass to kick" - Barack Obama, June 7th 2010

"I want you to argue with them, get in their face..." - Barack Obama, September 18th 2008

"I don't want the folks who made this mess to do any talking, I want them out of the way." - Barack Obama, August 2009

“I know they are gearing up for a fight as we speak. My message to them is this: so am I." - Barack Obama, February 28th 2009

This is all Obamas fault. He has blood on his hands, he is a murderer.

[/parkyhat]

On a slightly more serious note... I have some limited experience doing volunteer work with the mentally ill. I saw this guys rants on youtube before they were taken down. His word usage has more of the "word salad" quality of a paranoid schizophrenic than the ludicrous, yet internally consistent fantasies of the more common political extremists we see in the CT/911CT section.

Sarah Palins map is as innocuous as Obamas rhetoric and Harry Reids and Nancy Pelosis angry name-calling. None of them are responsible for this guy. There's no magic spell that Palin, Obama or anyone can cast that can reach out and alter some random strangers dopamine levels from across the continent.

Participants in a critical thinkers forum should already know this.
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You forgot a couple...

"We’re gonna punish our enemies (Republicans)" - Barack Obama, Oct. 2010

"It's tempting not to negotiate with hostage takers (Republicans), unless the hostage gets harmed...The hostage was the American people." - Barack Obama, Dec 2010

I'm not trying to draw any inference or place any blame here...I'm just trying to be thorough...make sure we've covered them all.
 
deepatrax said:
You forgot a couple...

"We’re gonna punish our enemies (Republicans)" - Barack Obama, Oct. 2010

"It's tempting not to negotiate with hostage takers (Republicans), unless the hostage gets harmed...The hostage was the American people." - Barack Obama, Dec 2010

I'm not trying to draw any inference or place any blame here...I'm just trying to be thorough...make sure we've covered them all.
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Those are good ones too.

yet, in spite of those comments, I don't hold Obama responsible for John Patrick Bedell, the guy who crashed his plane into the IRS or any other left-leaning looney tunes who flip out and go on a rampage.

Call me crazy... :rolleyes:
 
Something to unite us all: a Westboro Baptist Church video.


We can all ignore it together.
 
from New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09shooter.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

"Don Coorough, 58, who sat two desks in front of Mr. Loughner in a poetry class last semester, described him as a “troubled young man” and “emotionally underdeveloped.” After another student read a poem about getting an abortion, Mr. Loughner compared the young woman to a “terrorist for killing the baby.”

So I don't think he can be boxed in as a "Liberal." He was also described as a heavy alcohol drinker who got alcohol poisoning and had to quit school because of it (2006), so boxing him in as a "pot smoker" w/o mentioning alcohol isn't going to make sense either.
 
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Thunder said:
this is disgusting. :mad:

this man needs to fry..and soon. i'd like to watch it happen.

and Sarah Palin needs to be sued in civil court for political incitement.


...and of course, Truthers and other nuts will use this detail as proof of an "inside-job".
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Or throw the book at her. A campaign table stands a couple of centimeters wrong at the sidewalk - call the city zoning board. Shaky hubcaps - bam!

Regarding venomous rhetoric, didn't Al Franken have some commercial where persons who didn't want to buy his book got beat up?

And in Sweden, there's been at least one case of "liberal" mainstream venom. During Stockholm Pride -01 the Liberal Youth of Sweden offered you to throw darts at an image of the conservative (really conservative) Alf Svensson. Disregarding nazis and commies, you gotta go back to -86 (or was it -05?) when the fringe conservatives of Contra (nice name, eh?) had a target image of Olof Palme in their magazine.

And then there's the occasional feminist sucking up to the SCUM-manifesto etc, but that rhetoric is dictated by fads.
 
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deepatrax said:
didn't we cover this already?

People A person who knew him said he was a pot smoking Liberal.
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FTFY.

One anecdote doesn't constitute a great deal of evidence. But even if it did that's still just "a person" who knew him 'back in high school'. Teenagers, even teenagers in the best of mental health (as far as the concept is useful where teenagers are concerned) can change political philosophies as easily and as often as they change hairstyles or significant others, and frequently do.

If their brain chemistry starts tilting seriously out of whack then what they thought or did two or three years ago may not be particularly significant.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Because it happened to a politician, at a political event?
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Let me rephrase for the sake of clarity:

What I find bizarre and distasteful is that some people have immediately attempted to score cheap political points on the back of this tragedy. Also, I don't relate to the mentality whereby the primary reaction to this tragedy is to see what political leverage can be wrenched out of it.
 
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