Remote viewing nonsense

[d.plows]

Google these pages for more info on remote viewing and NDE which sheds light on Mr Randis nonsensical claim that remote viewing is AN OBVIOUS NONSENSE.

1. Scotsman .com news ;Study into near death experience.

See also Peter Fenwick studies.

2.Out of body journal causing a stir.

3.People who are blind can see during near death experiences.

It is a fact that reasearch is ongoing into this phenomena and that many front line hospitals in the UK are involved .It should be accepted that there is cause for investigation into this happening. As they say the better we get at delivering treatment the more people are pulled back from the brink. These events should be studied not sneared at.

 

[TheBoyPaj]

Got a link to the actual published studies, rather than the sensationalist news stories which do not contain the protocols used?

 

[Bronze Dog]

Whenever someone asks me to google for stuff, I often end up with unverifiable anecdotes, news stories, etc., but never the study itself. [sarcasm] I wonder why [/sarcasm.] That's why we need links, and not google requests.

 

[d.plows]

re usual scepticism

1 I was asked to provide evidence that studies where being undertaken. I was not asked to provide papers or in depth detail.

2 If you would care to read the articles you may find them illuminating and there is plenty of reference to acredited authorities both in science and in theolgy who have read in depth these studies and who have praised their methodology.
Its easy to churn out standard denigrating reponses. Basically all it comes down to is You are mistaken You havnt read things correctly .. We are the only ones who know. Wrong chum!

With regard to pshycic experiences I have had a plethora of them happen to me so Im firmly in the camp that these occurences are supernatural to some and normal to others. Thats my opinion.

 

[d.plows]

RE untensils

I suppose you want a spoon as well and some sweets to brighten up the dreary day. Is there any point in even talking to people who sound beaten before they even try .

 

[d.plows]

LInks

You can listen to the whole report on NDE on the radio Netherlands site under Science It has a full detailed report on the clinical findings of the Dutch and British medical institutes findings. However this may be a bit risque .. you know those Dutch they may sneak in something saucy just for a laugh.

 

[Blackwell]

Re: re usual scepticism

1 I was asked to provide evidence that studies where being undertaken. I was not asked to provide papers or in depth detail.

Asked by who? You started this thread. If this is in response to someone's request in another thread, please fill us in.

It is a fact that reasearch is ongoing into this phenomena and that many front line hospitals in the UK are involved .

Well, without reading anything further on the subject, I would probably agree with you that research in ongoing; I also wouldn't doubt that hospitals are involved in some way. Your point? It's only the results of this research that may prove interesting, not your provision of "evidence that studies where {sic} being undertaken."

Its easy to churn out standard denigrating reponses.

I'll take your word for it, since you're the only one doing this. BoyPaj and BronzeDog are simply looking for you to provide some links.

I suppose you want a spoon as well and some sweets to brighten up the dreary day. Is there any point in even talking to people who sound beaten before they even try .

Beaten before they try? Try what? Doing a Google search? If there's a point you'd like to make, provide some supporting data. Don't make us do your work for you.

 

[Psiload]

Google these pages for more info on remote viewing and NDE which sheds light on Mr Randis nonsensical claim that remote viewing is AN OBVIOUS NONSENSE.

1. Scotsman .com news ;Study into near death experience.

See also Peter Fenwick studies.

2.Out of body journal causing a stir.

3.People who are blind can see during near death experiences.

It is a fact that reasearch is ongoing into this phenomena and that many front line hospitals in the UK are involved .It should be accepted that there is cause for investigation into this happening. As they say the better we get at delivering treatment the more people are pulled back from the brink. These events should be studied not sneared at.

All of your references, as vague as they are, seem to be wholly concerned with the topic of "NDE's". I don't see any information concerning "remote viewing". NDE can be a sticky topic to study because it involves the anecdotal accounts from people who where experiencing traumatic and irregular brain functioning... not the best situation in which to expect straight answers and sober testimony.

"Remote viewing", on the other hand, is a ridiculously simple claim to verify... theoretically speaking.

 

[Psiload]

Re: re usual scepticism

1 I was asked to provide evidence that studies where being undertaken. I was not asked to provide papers or in depth detail.

2 If you would care to read the articles you may find them illuminating and there is plenty of reference to acredited authorities both in science and in theolgy who have read in depth these studies and who have praised their methodology.
Its easy to churn out standard denigrating reponses. Basically all it comes down to is You are mistaken You havnt read things correctly .. We are the only ones who know. Wrong chum!

With regard to pshycic experiences I have had a plethora of them happen to me so Im firmly in the camp that these occurences are supernatural to some and normal to others. Thats my opinion.

From the article:

http://twm.co.nz/sep11_neardeath.htm

For his latest research, 60 patients at Southampton General Hospital’s coronary care unit were interviewed after heart attacks had left them temporarily brain-dead. Seven reported near-death experiences - defined by characteristic features such as a feeling of leaving your body, going through a tunnel and entering an area of "love, bliss and consciousness".
"The significance of this is that after a cardiac arrest you lose consciousness within eight seconds; within 11 seconds the brain’s rhythms become flat, and within 18 seconds there is no possibility of the brain creating a model of the world - so the brain is down," said Dr Fenwick.
"Yet whenever we asked people when their near-death experiences occurred, they said it was during unconsciousness. If that’s true, their experience was occurring when there was no blood flowing through the brain - and consciousness would appear to exist outside the brain."
It could be argued that their experiences occurred in the few seconds between brain functions being restored and the return of consciousness. But recent research on a patient in the United States, where traces of electrical activity in the brain were closely monitored, suggested this was not the case.

-"If that's true."

-"would appear"

-"It could be argued"

-"suggested"

I'll say this for Dr. Fenwick, he's certainly is skilled in the use of "weasel words".

The icing on the cake... the article ends with this morsel:

Dr Fenwick said the idea of the mind existing outside the body helped to explain the growing weight of scientific evidence pointing to genuine psychic powers.

For example, US trials showed women trying to become pregnant by in-vitro fertilisation were twice as likely to conceive if they were "prayed for" by a group of people hundreds of miles away who had never met them.

Ummm... you do realize that this "US trial" mentioned in the article was discovered to be a blatant fraud? Try doing a Google search...

key words: columbia university prayer study fraud

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=columbia+university+prayer+study+fraud&btnG=Google+Search

Here's one result:

http://www.csicop.org/si/2004-09/miracle-study.html

 

[d.plows]

Whos is We

With regard to the thread. I was asked in general to provide evidence that work in to remote viewing was been carried out and that NDE being decribed the way that it is constitutes just that. Remote viewing. I have Given you a radio station. Radio Netherlands to listen to they have a full report on this and it would be interesting for to hear.I suppose you want me to translate it and help suck thumbs. With regard to the fact that people who undergoe NDE do so under unusual circumstances well Im not so much bothered by that except tp say > You wouldnt have a near death experience if you where perferctly well would you! They do report and give unusual accounts of their time whilst unconcious relaying seemingly immpossible information about goings on etc which defies normal explanation. They do not simply wake up and say I had dream and my head hurts. However seen as no one actually has said that they would listen to the programmes or read the accounts I cannot see the point once again of continuing these discussions . As for you doing work for me "have I asked this from you" I reported something to you but it says something of your attitudes that you cant even relate without getting involved in some sort of status game. I remember once asking for a form to a challenge. You know the one that pays dollars." We do not work for you came the reply". IT clearly states that you can get an application sent out....why so prickly.. why so uncooperative. Maybe that for most of you the thought of being proved wrong is too much to take. Dave

 

[Psiload]

Re: Whos is We

With regard to the thread. I was asked in general to provide evidence that work in to remote viewing was been carried out and that NDE being decribed the way that it is constitutes just that. Remote viewing. I have Given you a radio station. Radio Netherlands to listen to they have a full report on this and it would be interesting for to hear.I suppose you want me to translate it and help suck thumbs. With regard to the fact that people who undergoe NDE do so under unusual circumstances well Im not so much bothered by that except tp say > You wouldnt have a near death experience if you where perferctly well would you! They do report and give unusual accounts of their time whilst unconcious relaying seemingly immpossible information about goings on etc which defies normal explanation. They do not simply wake up and say I had dream and my head hurts. However seen as no one actually has said that they would listen to the programmes or read the accounts I cannot see the point once again of continuing these discussions . As for you doing work for me "have I asked this from you" I reported something to you but it says something of your attitudes that you cant even relate without getting involved in some sort of status game. I remember once asking for a form to a challenge. You know the one that pays dollars." We do not work for you came the reply". IT clearly states that you can get an application sent out....why so prickly.. why so uncooperative. Maybe that for most of you the thought of being proved wrong is too much to take. Dave

Yes... could you please provide me with a translation of the Radio Netherlands program on NDE's? Thanks for the offer. I'm not sure how usefull a Dutch to Semi-intelligible Raving Nutterspeak translation will be, but thanks anyway.

 

[d.plows]

Raving nutter

Have a look in the mirror matey . Is that you on the logo . Id give up the job as lost... you cant resist getting personal can you lot .

 

[Ladewig]

Re: Whos is We

> You wouldn't have a near death experience if you where perfectly well would you!

Well, actually, people who are not near death do have NDEs.
Reality Matters

Even today with our scientific and psychological explanations, many people believe near death experiences, or NDE's are authentically spiritual. Many scientists say these experiences are just effects of a dying brain. Experts from around the world are recreating this phenomenon in the laboratory. Effects that extreme g-forces have on the brain produce NDE like symptoms. Researchers use a centrifuge to reproduce high speed flight conditions. Years of research with hundreds of pilots uncovered several intriguing correlations between pilot blackout episodes and NDE's. One of the symptoms is a short dream, called a dreamlet. The dreamlets have very specific characteristics. A feeling of floating. Visions of seeing friends and family. A feeling of being out of the body. A euphoric and pleasurable experience most of the time. And these experiences are extremely memorable.

Is there any point in even talking to people who sound beaten before they even try .

Did you really expect to come to a skeptic site, tell people to google a few words, and have people jump up and say, "Amazing, I had never seen the evidence, but now that I have read some stories on the internet, I believe wholeheartedly in the paranormal aspect of NDEs"?

 

[d.plows]

sorry

I really didnt realise you where all sceptics... just thought you where a mixture of all sorts .. that explains a certain undercurrent that pervades. Ah well thanks for the info. As Ive said many times Ive had so many visitations and happenings and conversations with the dead as to have no doubts. In fact in my poosition Id be a fool to be a sceptic thoroughly barmy in fact Id be unscientific. Well I suppose my anecdotes wouldnt immpress you . Has none of you had a genuine experience? not neccesarily stoned but beautiful......................Never talked to they that have passed on , never seen an apparition ,been visited by the dead , never had a pshycic phenomena manifest themselves through matter, moving , touching causing huge noises moving literally ones house shaking it to the very foundations etc ( Witnessed) No! Im surprised.What is wrong with you lot. Get tuned in. Thers something going on that you should delve into something much more important than debunking cranks.Theres a whole universe out there that we know about . And we know how much? Not that much. Dave

 

[Ipecac]

If any of the stuff you purport to believe in were true it would be monstrously easy to prove. It would be common and replicable.

Yet, over a couple of hundred years of pretty decent scientific inquiry, especially over the last fifty years, there is no hard proof that ANY of these phenonema even exist. Why is that?

 

[arthwollipot]

I have never had a paranormal experience.

I have never seen a ghost or a UFO, and I've never talked to a dead person.

I've never witnessed a miracle and I've never heard what someone is thinking.

I've never had the sense that someone is staring at me.

I've never seen Bigfoot or the Lost City of Atlantis.

I haven't found Noah's Ark and homeopathic remedies don't work on me.

I have never bent a spoon.

 

[AOK Tiger]

d.plows

From the tone of your previous posts I doubt I will receive an intelligible response from you but here goes nothing..

I really didnt realise you where all sceptics... just thought you where a mixture of all sorts .. that explains a certain undercurrent that pervades.

There is a mixture here.. but the sceptics here will ALWAYS ask you for some relevant tangible evidence for your claims. Have you got any ?

Ah well thanks for the info. As Ive said many times Ive had so many visitations and happenings and conversations with the dead as to have no doubts. In fact in my poosition Id be a fool to be a sceptic thoroughly barmy in fact Id be unscientific. Well I suppose my anecdotes wouldnt immpress you .

Have you ever wondered why your experiences NEVER include information you didn’t already know, they are NEVER replicable, they NEVER produce anything tangible or measurable.. in fact they are almost EXACTLY what would happen if you imagined them, hallucinated them or just plain dreamed them.

Why do you jump to the conclusion they are something paranormal.. start with the myriad of mundane explanations first and work your way down.

 

[arthwollipot]

A lot of people seem to come to the supernatural conclusions as a first resort. If I experience a phenomenon I cannot explain, I will not come to the conclusion that it is supernatural without first exploring all of the natural explanations.

 

[Zep]

d.plows, a little review of the problems with PEAR\'s \"remote viewing\" experiments. Just to show you (a) how much more statistics should be generated on the subject, (b) how badly it turns out when that happens properly, and (c) why.

 

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by d.plows
you cant resist getting personal can you lot .

Let me just recap a few things you've said in this thread:

"Basically all it comes down to is You are mistaken You havnt read things correctly .. We are the only ones who know. Wrong chum!"

"I suppose you want a spoon as well and some sweets to brighten up the dreary day. Is there any point in even talking to people who sound beaten before they even try ."

"I suppose you want me to translate it and help suck thumbs. "

"but it says something of your attitudes that you cant even relate without getting involved in some sort of status game"

And you think its the skeptics who have a problem getting personal?

Elsewhere in the thread, you write:

IT clearly states that you can get an application sent out....why so prickly.. why so uncooperative.

So clearly you dont like people being uncooperative.

Let me remind you of the first couple of post in this thread:
Your opening post was vague, and a simple request was made by theBoyPaj and Bronze Dog to, very minimally, link to a few cites or transcripts. Your response: you whined about it.

You have no sense of irony do you?