Remote viewing nonsense

[d.plows]

I have a sense of unfairness

I stated that I had found my conversations to be hard going. Thats true . I do not mind scrutiny but to say that these things should be easy to prove is plainly wrong. Its not. What happened at the beginning of time.If you are so clever tell me exactly what the sequence of events was and recreate them "its just a small natural phenomena ".Have you ever sat at a good seance? wide awake not in a halucnogenic state and listened and asked questions which prove there is something to the claim of lfe after death. No ! obviously not. Why shoukld I have to prove my state of mind and not you lot? Science does not rule the universe as yet and many things go unanswered. At least on this thread Ive got away with my poor grammar.Irony whats that? When Im settled at home . Just had a burglury Ill try and prove my point and thats from here in the UK ....a very long distance to ehterise the spasmodics. Perhaps you could suggest a way of proving this . Like I answer a question you lot dream up or remote view a secured picture etc... Id give it a go .Of course if I was successful Id have every intelligence force in thew world and every dodgy corporation after me... is it worth it comments please.Cooperation working together recieving applications when asked for.

 

[Ersby]

Personally, I hope he mentions URDF-3 as being proof of remote viewing. That would be hilarious.

[oops. he posted before me. Apparently, because I can't describe what happened at the beginning of time, I'm not fit to answer his questions. That's fine by me.]

 

[The Mighty Thor]

Ladybrook.

Teylah

 

[d.plows]

Wrong again

. Who said youre not fit to anwer my questions ... I asked for cooperation and as usual got a load of quotes , derogatory prose, shuffling around the important issues ... such as how does one report things that happen when the subject is DEAD and unable according to normal science to have even a prescence here. All I get back is .... you are a con or will be conned . or on another planet or deluded or havnt read things or such like... I ask one question and you cant answer it without resorting to supposition... These things cant happen therefore it must be this or that.... and you respect yourselves..How do you explain these reports from the Dutch medical assocaition and The British medical association which are the result of not just one mans efforts but many brilliant minds. There is obviously a case to answer . And what has babies in Michigan or something to do with NDE... surely its NBE... gong for lunch I asked how do you want it proved still waiting.I didnt say Id do it I said Id try. Gobby

 

[Ladewig]

Have you ever wondered why your experiences NEVER include information you didn’t already know?

Please consider that question.

I've spent more time than I should have watching after-death communicators like John E., James VP, and Sylvia B.

Their communications are always of the sort:
You are very loved,
I died very quickly,
My name begins with the letter "J"
I feel better now that I am on this side,
You are a caring person,
Please be at peace knowing there is an afterlife.

Their communications are never:
Here is an accurate description of the man who murdered me,
The missing will is hidden in the dresser in the attic,
A few years before I died, I buried some money in the backyard near the oak tree,
Don't buy the electric mower that you are considering because it will go on sale next week.

.. ... . ... .. ... ...

Lastly, please consider this scenario.
Imagine that you find someone on the internet who says that he has met several leprechauns and has lengthy discussions with them. Would you believe him instantly or would you ask for something stronger than his stories? What if he send you to an internet site that he describes as scientific proof of leprechauns - would that be enough for you to believe him?

 

[TheBoyPaj]

Re: Wrong again

How do you explain these reports from the Dutch medical assocaition and The British medical association which are the result of not just one mans efforts but many brilliant minds.

What reports? You still haven't given us any links to this research, nor told us where it was published. Scientific research is not usually published on radio, as far as I know.

 

[Ossai]

d.plows

You wouldnt have a near death experience if you where perferctly well would you!

Actually yes. Considering that NDEs have been reproduced numerous times in healthy people while undergoing G-force (gravity increase) testing [one of those machines the air force and nasa use to simulate an increase of gravity] as well as by air force pilots while performing high-g maneuvers.

They do report and give unusual accounts of their time whilst unconcious relaying seemingly immpossible information about goings on etc which defies normal explanation.

Like the seemingly impossible information that can’t possibly be extrapolated from watching hospital shows on TV.

However seen as no one actually has said that they would listen to the programmes or read the accounts I cannot see the point once again of continuing these discussions .

I have read quiet a few accounts, although possibly not the ones your referencing (Which, you must admit, is rather difficult when you won’t provide an actual like but merely suggest a google search on some terms.)

As Ive said many times Ive had so many visitations and happenings and conversations with the dead as to have no doubts.

Care to repeat it under controlled conditions?

such as how does one report things that happen when the subject is DEAD and unable according to normal science to have even a prescence here.

If the subject is DEAD and can’t interact with this world, how are they supposedly communicating with you?

Coherency of thought is expressed by coherency of communication. Or, please edit your posts for sentences, as in use grammar.

Ossai

 

[sackett]

… remote viewing is AN OBVIOUS NONSENSE….These events should be...sneared at. …With regard to pshycic experiences …these occurences are supernatural...and normal …those Dutch they may sneak in something saucy just for a laugh. …evidence that work in to remote viewing was been carried out and that NDE being decribed the way that it is constitutes just that…people who undergoe NDE do so…well Im not so much bothered …except tp say > …in my poosition Id be…thoroughly barmy in fact …a pshycic…to the very foundations …And we know how much? Not that much. Dave …my conversations to be hard going. Thats true …a very long distance to ehterise the spasmodics …Irony whats that? …you are a con or will be conned . or on another planet…what has babies in Michigan or something …gong for lunch …. Gobby

Kumar, is that you?

 

[Starrman]

such as how does one report things that happen when the subject is DEAD and unable according to normal science to have even a prescence here.

How does one know that the person that has come back from the dead, had the experience when they were dead, not just before or just after? How do you pinpoint the time of someone's memory of something to that degree?

 

[delphi_ote]

Re: Re: Wrong again

What reports? You still haven't given us any links to this research, nor told us where it was published. Scientific research is not usually published on radio, as far as I know.

You must not be familiar with Nature's Top 40 Countdown with Casey Kasem.

"These two scientists grew up together in Dayton, Ohio. In their young age, they frequently went frog hunting together. After they went their seprate ways, one to the labs at the University of California, Berekley and the other to the University of Stockholm, these two childhood friends hooked back up to write today's hit "Measurements of Ω and Λ from 42 High-Redshift Supernovae..."

 

[jmercer]

Re: Wrong again

. Who said youre not fit to anwer my questions ... I asked for cooperation and as usual got a load of quotes , derogatory prose, shuffling around the important issues ... such as how does one report things that happen when the subject is DEAD and unable according to normal science to have even a prescence here. All I get back is .... you are a con or will be conned . or on another planet or deluded or havnt read things or such like... I ask one question and you cant answer it without resorting to supposition... These things cant happen therefore it must be this or that.... and you respect yourselves..How do you explain these reports from the Dutch medical assocaition and The British medical association which are the result of not just one mans efforts but many brilliant minds. There is obviously a case to answer . And what has babies in Michigan or something to do with NDE... surely its NBE... gong for lunch I asked how do you want it proved still waiting.I didnt say Id do it I said Id try. Gobby

Ahem... (clearing throat)

With apologies to Tolkien

Song About Old d.plows

d.plows sat alone on his seat of stone,
And munched and mumbled a bare old bone;
For many a year he had gnawed it near,
For meat was hard to come by.
Done by! Gum by!
In a cave in the hills he dwelt alone,
And meat was hard to come by.

Up came Tom with his big boots on.
Said he to d.plows: "Pray, what is yon?
For it looks like the shin o' my nuncle Tim,
As should be a-lyin' in graveyard.
Caveyard! Paveyard!
This many a year has Tim been gone,
And I thought he were lyin' in graveyard."

"My lad," said d.plows, "this bone I stole.
But what be bones that lie in a hole?
Thy nuncle was dead as a lump o' lead,
Afore I found his shinbone.
Tinbone! Thinbone!
He can spare a share for a poor old d.plows,
For he don't need his shinbone."

Said Tom: "I don't see why the likes o' thee
Without axin' leave should go makin' free
With the shank or the shin o' my father's kin;
So hand the old bone over!
Rover! Trover!
Though dead he be, it belongs to he;
So hand the old bone over!"

"For a couple o' pins," says d.plows, and grins,
"I'll eat thee too, and gnaw thy shins.
A bit o' fresh meat will go down sweet!
I'll try my teeth on thee now.
Hee now! See now!
I'm tired o' gnawing old bones and skins;
I've a mind to dine on thee now."

Thee'll be a nice change from thine nuncle.
Sunkle! Drunkle!
I'm tired of gnawing old bones and skins;
Thee'll be a nice change from thine nuncle."

But just as he thought his dinner was caught,
He found his hands had hold of naught.
Before he could mind, Tom slipped behind
And gave him the boot to larn him.
Warn him! Darn him!
A bump o' the boot on the seat, Tom thought,
Would be the way to larn him.

But harder than stone is the flesh and bone
Of a d.plows that sits in the hills alone.
As well set your boot to the mountain's root,
For the seat of a d.plows don't feel it.
Peel it! Heal it!
Old d.plows laughed, when he heard Tom groan,
And he knew his toes could feel it.

Tom's leg is game, since home he came,
And his bootless foot is lasting lame;
But d.plows don't care, and he's still there
With the bone he boned from it's owner.
Doner! Boner!
d.plows's old seat is still the same,
And the bone he boned from it's owner!

 

[arthwollipot]

Kumar, is that you?

No, it's not Kumar. The grammar is too good to be Kumar. The word order sometimes makes sense, and there is not enough reliance on the thesaurus.

 

[Perpetual Notion]

Besides, Kumar knows how to use a period. Credit where credit is due.

 

[d.plows]

whats normal science

under normal science "dead people do not have prescence here "? I havnt actually seen this mentioned in one science book .So therefore Im quietly confident youre wrong.Perhaps I should read better literature like "The book of science which proves dead people do not exist at all " or The book of science which proves that sceptics will never communicate with the dead because they dont even try" Or how do you get a sceptic to rub his face in a petri dish? Tell him that he could be the founder of a great culture.

Re NDE do these pilots actally record cardiac arrest ? and are they pronounced clinically dead ...thought not.Just a bit of a faint probably the butch instructors.

Controlled enviroment... whose control Sceptics.... you wouldnt believe it even if it happened......youd be too busy making up Limericks or working out new hymns of praise to the great Randi The new pop idol............How about Tart vs Randi reality show.
I could be set on a space station somewhere crowded with all different types of people sceptics , believers etc last one out and still sane wins. Or maybe just a boxing match.

Question does youre movement mean to teach children that all believers in supernatural events or life after death are nutters? Sounds like a lot of your clique would have it so ... is that not dangerous? bit like propergander and brain washing.Talk about control....tut tut...........

 

[delphi_ote]

Re: whats normal science

under normal science "dead people do not have prescence here "? I havnt actually seen this mentioned in one science book .So therefore Im quietly confident youre wrong.Perhaps I should read better literature like "The book of science which proves dead people do not exist at all " or The book of science which proves that sceptics will never communicate with the dead because they dont even try" Or how do you get a sceptic to rub his face in a petri dish? Tell him that he could be the founder of a great culture.

Did you think of that all by yourself?

Wait... no you didn't:

"There is a joke: what is the difference between a petri dish and your teen-ager's bedroom? The answer: what comes out of a petri dish can be called a 'culture'."
http://www.e-n.org.uk/2002-10/1959-Monthly-column-for-youth-leaders.htm

Granted, it's not as bad as your version. Anyway...

Dead people do have a "prescence" here: their corpse. We usually bury them in the ground or burn them. Nobody here ever claimed dead people don't exist. There is an obvious counter-proof to that theory requiring only a shovel, a cemetary, and questionable ethics. Communicating with the dead works in so far as we can talk to them. This much has been documented with ample evidence. Getting them to talk back is a feat nobody has shown they can do despite their countless claims otherwise.

I'm willing, however, to put your claim that skeptics will not try to talk to the dead to the test and prove you a liar. I've tried to talk to the dead. I got no response. And believe me, there's someone who passed away I'd like to communicate with. Lots of things left unsaid. This skeptic will happily be the subject of a scientific test of skeptic's willingness to talk with the dead. What would be satisfactory proof that I have, in fact, tried to talk to the dead? What would convince you that I have tried?

That's how skeptics roll. We usually like to test things before running our mouths.

 

[arthwollipot]

If I had my way, children would not be taught that people who believe in the supernatural are nutters. But they would be taught to rationally investigate the evidence and to not jump to conclusions that aren't warranted.

In fact, that's how I teach my own children.

 

[AOK Tiger]

Dplow,

Against all my better judgment I am going to respond…

under normal science "dead people do not have prescence here "? I havnt actually seen this mentioned in one science book .So therefore Im quietly confident youre wrong.Perhaps I should read better literature like "The book of science which proves dead people do not exist at all "

Does that make sense .. even to you ?

Dead people DO exist.. cemeteries are full of them !

or The book of science which proves that sceptics will never communicate with the dead because they dont even try"

But we do try.. they just don’t seem to try and communicate back !

Or how do you get a sceptic to rub his face in a petri dish? Tell him that he could be the founder of a great culture.

Hmm .. an attempt at humour.. sorta funny I guess

Re NDE do these pilots actally record cardiac arrest ? and are they pronounced clinically dead ...thought not.Just a bit of a faint probably the butch instructors.

The point is the cardiac arrest and high altitude/pressure etc cause the SAME response.. an NDE type experience.. its all related to oxygen levels and pressure on the brain .. do you get it ???

Controlled enviroment... whose control Sceptics.... you wouldnt believe it even if it happened......youd be too busy making up Limericks or working out new hymns of praise to the great Randi The new pop idol............How about Tart vs Randi reality show.

That was just inane babbling !

I could be set on a space station somewhere crowded with all different types of people sceptics , believers etc last one out and still sane wins. Or maybe just a boxing match.

Its getting worse

Question does youre movement mean to teach children that all believers in supernatural events or life after death are nutters?

What movement ??? You loon.

We just question EVERY supernatural story we hear.. and guess what they all come out as a load of bollocks or something mundane and explainable. Believers of these stories are not always “nutters” sometimes they are just plain stupid, very naïve, gullible or lack critical thinking skills.

Sounds like a lot of your clique would have it so ... is that not dangerous? bit like propergander and brain washing.Talk about control....tut tut...........

The last “propergander” I met was trying to impregnate our Geese !

 

[Oregon_Skeptic]

Dear d. plows,

You asked if anyone on here has ever had a “genuine experience.” I guess just about every day I have hundreds of genuine experiences—I genuinely experience eating and drinking and farting and talking and whatever else might go on while I am awake and conscious.

But as for paranormal experiences—nothing that I could not attribute to something real: I’ve seen ghosts—only to have them change before my eyes into recognizable structures; I’ve felt the floor of my building shift back and forth under my feet—and realized that a minor earth quake or tremor was occurring; I’ve heard a monster growl in the night—only to hastily awaken and realize it was a dream.

For me, the most unusual such experience occurred was when I was 20 to 21 or so, and for about a year I attended a charismatic, fundamentalist Christian church. On my first day there I saw the “laying on of hands,” people “speak in tongues” and “fall down in the spirit.” I was a bit skeptical, but these people did seem to be having some sorts of genuine experiences. Finally, after attending regularly for a few months, and at the prompting of friends, I went to receive the “gift of tongues.”

It was an amazing experience, actually. I stepped forward with six or seven some others to receive the “spirit of the Lord.” As we did so the pastor, with microphone in hand, began praying for the “Holy Spirit” to visit each of us. We stood in line, a few feet apart from one another, facing forward, most of us with head bent in prayer. The church band, complete with electric guitar, began to play louder. All of the church goers behind us—probably a hundred or so that day—were on their feet and clapping in time to the music. With gusto, many of the faithful hollered typical church phrases: “Amen!” “Praise Jesus!” “Hallelujah!” Some prayed out loud and others sang or hummed.

The music seemed to become more repetitive, as if the band was in a permanent coda, but the faithful kept clapping and whopping it up. I was the third or fourth person in line. One after the next the pastor stood before those of us front and center, and one after the next he prayed over them, touching them on their head or over their heart, and one after the next they fell down in ecstasy or began speaking in tongues.

Eventually the pastor came to stand in front of me. He asked me what I wanted and I said to receive the gift of tongues. He reached out and laid his hand on my head and began praying for me to receive this gift. He prayed good and strong and loud. His hand was firmly gripping me. Within a moment or two I felt a warm, strong tingle across my lower back that felt something akin to when you stick your tongue on the end of a 9-volt battery. My whole body began to tremble. At the pastor’s urging I tilted my head back and opened my mouth and out came sounds I had never heard before, an odd, weird gibberish that I spoke but did not understand. This probably lasted for two or three minutes before I collapsed and was then helped to a chair.

The sensations, however, did not suddenly stop—for several hours after I felt exhilarated, my back continued to tingle, and I had some difficulty walking.

But none of this was caused by any spirit or god, although it took a good psychology class in college for me to understand why. Many things were in place in that church for me to experience what is called an altered state of consciousness, or ASC: urging from the group to experience something new, a cacophony of noise, repetitive and loud music, even the pastor’s touch. Taken together, along with my belief at the time, and no wonder I felt and did what I did. I had seen it happen a hundred times before me, so I was already “programmed,” in a sense, to replicate what I had seen.

An ASC is a weird thing, sure, but it is not caused by something other worldly or paranormal in the least. I think everyone should experience such a state at least once (although I’m not advocating doing so via a drug). And I would submit that NDEs have more in common with ASCs and their real-world explanations than with the workings of any god.

Sincerely,

Phil Wright
Oregon_Skeptic


Edited to fix a couple of typos.

 

[arthwollipot]

Oregon_Skeptic, I have nominated you for the June Language Award. I went through almost the same experience, but have never been able to put it in words as well as you just did. Thank you.

 

[Oregon_Skeptic]

arthwollipot,

Wow man, that is very cool of you. Thank you. And it's good to know I'm not the only one who has experienced this sort of thing.

By the way, your post even made me go back and fix my typos.