remote reiki

[MoonDragn]

Compared to what? How do you know you have accelerated the healing?

If you have nothing to compare it to then you are just guessing and almost certainly incorrectly.
If you have a way of showing that you have accelerated the healing then you can win a million dollars.

Compared to other people. Just by comparison it "seems" I heal faster. But since I'm not a doctor I really know nothing about it, it could have very normal explainations. Who cares about the million dollars. You seem to think that everyone who claims to be psychic is in it for the money. There are those of us who grew up with it that are just curious to learn what it is exactly and really don't want to be singled out as a freak, which is what will happen when you do these tests.

BTW 'it was just a belief' is no defense for ignorant, rude, offensive or otherwise unpleasant behaviour. And sometimes it can be dowright dangerous.
I think we are all fully aware of what beliefs can lead to sometimes, whether the belief be of a fundamentalist relgious persuasion, or an alternative medical practice.
Or the human parasites that call themselves psychics and mediums and interfere with the grieving process. [/B]

It was her belief, I don't think she was intentionally trying to be rude. From her perspective it may have been a kind gesture. I find it more offensive when someone comes up to me on the subway and starts preaching things from the Bible. Why is that not rude? Who gets to judge what is rude or not because it doesn't match their beliefs?

I find it VERY rude for someone to ostracize another person for their personal belief. Hurt other people ? The only hurt that usually comes is when greedy people who don't believe this stuff anyway decide to make money off of it by deceiving other people. Those people are usually skeptics to begin with.

 

[LordoftheLeftHand]

I have always been able to heal myself faster than normal by putting my hands on a wound, but I've never believed you could heal at a distance.

I've have gone to Reiki circles to experience first hand what its like from other people and some people you can really feel the energy off of them and some nothing at all.

There is of course no scientific proof whatsoever but usually when I put my hands over someone I can sense "cold spots" which relate almost directly to something wrong with their body.

Sounds like a $1,000,000.00 challenge. Woohoo your gonna be rich!

LLH

 

[Bronze Dog]

Compared to other people. Just by comparison it "seems" I heal faster. But since I'm not a doctor I really know nothing about it, it could have very normal explainations.

My suspicions: You've got some fast-healing genes and/or confirmation bias.

Who cares about the million dollars. You seem to think that everyone who claims to be psychic is in it for the money.

I should mention the challenge more often than the million. The money is irrelevant. The challenge, though, is quite worthwhile: You pass the JREF, and you'll have people like me giving you their undivided attention. If you can get another organization or two to replicate the test and results, it wouldn't be long before reiki or whatever is accepted as mainstream.

There are those of us who grew up with it that are just curious to learn what it is exactly and really don't want to be singled out as a freak, which is what will happen when you do these tests.

Then maybe you should find someone who wants the exposure to take the challenge. Unfortunately, there seem to be very few claimants willing to endure unwanted fame to convince anyone that there's another field of viable medical treatments.

 

[Ashles]

Compared to other people. Just by comparison it "seems" I heal faster. But since I'm not a doctor I really know nothing about it, it could have very normal explainations.

So why do you assume paranormal explanations in the first instance? That makes no sense.
You think you heal faster, you admit that it might be your imagination and that you have no medical training.
Yet you state as fact: "I have always been able to heal myself faster than normal by putting my hands on a wound"

We often see these throwaway comments from people who desperately want to have paranormal abilities or appear special, but obviously can't really demonstrate any unusual ability.

Who cares about the million dollars. You seem to think that everyone who claims to be psychic is in it for the money.

If there was a test that paid a million dollars to demonstrate something I could do, I would certainly take that test then use the million dollars in whatever way I wished.
You could give the money to charity, help your friends and relatives, set yourself up as a healer to help others...
But no. Of course. Psychics aren't interested in money. Or helping anyone else with that money obviously.

This is a lame excuse, and it gets lamer every time we hear it.

There are those of us who grew up with it that are just curious to learn what it is exactly and really don't want to be singled out as a freak, which is what will happen when you do these tests.

Or you could of course help science to advance and help millions of people around the world.
And if so many people have these abilities then you wouldn't be a lone freak, but part of a group.

It also doesn't quite explain why, if people are so scared of being ostracised by society, that people who have these 'gifts' mention having these gifts all the time, at any possible opportunity.

And you don't see the likes of Sylvia Brown, Derek Acorah, John Edwards etc. being labelled freaks. People love them and can't get enough of them.

Sorry, I'm afraid that is just another lame excuse that gets lamer every time we hear it.

It was her belief, I don't think she was intentionally trying to be rude. From her perspective it may have been a kind gesture. I find it more offensive when someone comes up to me on the subway and starts preaching things from the Bible. Why is that not rude? Who gets to judge what is rude or not because it doesn't match their beliefs?

Something is rude dependent on a person finding it rude.
And most people have the abilty to know when a comment they might make could be inappropriate.
For example at a funeral if someone says "Well they're in heaven now" I won't respond by saying that I don't believe there is a heaven and that they are just dead.
It might my belief, but it would be inappropriate.
Unlike you I don't think "Well it's my belief" is a suitable defense for saying potentially offensive things whenever I feel like it.

I find it VERY rude for someone to ostracize another person for their personal belief.

My what a big strawman. Where did that come from?
Who said anything about ostracising anyone? Nice attempt to change direction, but it's not what anyone has been suggesting.

Hurt other people ? The only hurt that usually comes is when greedy people who don't believe this stuff anyway decide to make money off of it by deceiving other people. Those people are usually skeptics to begin with.

You obviously don't have the first clue what the word 'sceptic' means.
Either that or it is a rather childish attempt to tar sceptics with the same brush as the very people sceptics quite obviously criticise regularly.

So ignorant or childish? Which best describes you?

 

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

Compared to other people. Just by comparison it "seems" I heal faster. But since I'm not a doctor I really know nothing about it, it could have very normal explainations. Who cares about the million dollars. You seem to think that everyone who claims to be psychic is in it for the money. There are those of us who grew up with it that are just curious to learn what it is exactly and really don't want to be singled out as a freak, which is what will happen when you do these tests.

I'm sorry, but the 'I don't want to be singled out as a freak' is an argument that does not hold any water. You claim to posess an ability that would completely revolutionize human knowledge, and change known science and physics, AND would get you enough money to never have to worry about paying bills for the rest of your life, and you don't want to do it because you'd be singled out as a freak? Sorry, try and sell that elsewhere cause I ain't buying.

It was her belief, I don't think she was intentionally trying to be rude. From her perspective it may have been a kind gesture. I find it more offensive when someone comes up to me on the subway and starts preaching things from the Bible. Why is that not rude? Who gets to judge what is rude or not because it doesn't match their beliefs?

Who said that someone on the subway quoting from the bible was not rude? Nobody here tried to make that argument. However, by your logic, that person would also have been doing it as 'a kind gesture'.

I find it VERY rude for someone to ostracize another person for their personal belief. Hurt other people ? The only hurt that usually comes is when greedy people who don't believe this stuff anyway decide to make money off of it by deceiving other people. Those people are usually skeptics to begin with.

So you don't see anything wrong with a medium, even working for free, giving a bereived person false memories about their loved ones? Putting words in their mouth that they never said? No problem there?

 

[MoonDragn]

From your initial response to this one one thing is very clear, you love to call people names. "So ignorant or childish?", ask yourself that question. You try to steer the topic in different directions not me, I was relating personal opinion. If you don't agree with that opinion fine, I don't try to take apart your beliefs. Whether or not I believe I can really do those things isn't the issue here is it? Why don't you try my challenge.. I'll give you $100 bucks if you can scientifically prove your not a total moron. To prove it, I'll give you a test where I judge the results. Of course you have to provide your own transportation.

 

[MoonDragn]

So you don't see anything wrong with a medium, even working for free, giving a bereived person false memories about their loved ones? Putting words in their mouth that they never said? No problem there?

Whats so different about saying that and someone saying "Don't worry, I see them with god now? Talk to your priest". You could take that as a kind statement if you believed in god, but what if you didn't?

Where was she trying to put words in her mouth? She asked her to "seek out Sylvia Browne because "she can help you reconnect with your mom."

Nowhere in that sentence do i find her putting anything rude.

Maybe because I come from a different culture, but where I grew up spirits were accepted real or not.

 

[Ashles]

From your initial response to this one one thing is very clear, you love you call people names. So ignorant or childish, ask yourself that question. You try to steer the topic in different directions not me, I was relating personal opinion. If you don't agree with that opinion fine, I don't try to take apart your beliefs.

I have no intention to challenge people's beliefs, it is actual testable claims that I question and ask evidence for.
And also the appropriateness of situations when people push their beliefs onto others.

Whether or not I believe I can really do those things isn't the issue here is it? Why don't you try my challenge.. I'll give you $100 bucks if you can scientifically prove your not a total moron. To prove it, I'll give you a test where I judge the results. Of course you have to provide your own transportation.

Is that supposed to parody the JREF challenge?
If it is then you have incorrectly assumed that it is a challenge which involves personal judging. It doesn't. A pass rate is agreed by the testers and the claimant prior to testing.

The fact that I can point out the flaws in your test should logically mean I have already passed it.
Cheque will be fine.

 

[crimresearch]

From your initial response to this one one thing is very clear, you love to call people names. "So ignorant or childish?", ask yourself that question. You try to steer the topic in different directions not me, I was relating personal opinion. If you don't agree with that opinion fine, I don't try to take apart your beliefs. Whether or not I believe I can really do those things isn't the issue here is it? Why don't you try my challenge.. I'll give you $100 bucks if you can scientifically prove your not a total moron. To prove it, I'll give you a test where I judge the results. Of course you have to provide your own transportation.

As MoonDragn is finding out, 'Xxxx is woo, but...' is like waving a red flag in front of a bull around here.

Feeling the cold spots in Reiki, just like feeling the 'energy' warmth/tingling in Qigong is a purely subjective thing, and as far as I'm concerned, you are welcome to it.

But if there is an implicaton that the feeling of cold spots correlates to something, such as old injuries, and then an attempt to construct a 'healing modality' on top of that correlation...then that would want testing, wouldn't it?

Is there anything innately wrong with moving observations like the above from the realm of the subjective to the objective via testing?

 

[MoonDragn]

So what happens when the testers and claimant refuse to agree?

When I related my personal experience, I qualified it by saying that I don't know if its a true ability or not, because I am not a specialist on human physiology and cannot tell what is "Normal" for healing rate. You however took that as me saying that I claimed to be able to do it but are making excuses.

Well I can give you physical challenge like score 75 baskets from 50 feet away in 100 tries. If you fail you are a moron. Thats what I feel about the challenge, its like asking someone to score baskets. These abilities require alot of practice and understanding on how they work. IF they work at all. If you start from a point of disbelief, how can it possibly work at all? Imagine trying to score a basket while people are laughing at you saying you can't do it.

 

[crimresearch]

So what happens when the testers and claimant refuse to agree?

When I related my personal experience, I qualified it by saying that I don't know if its a true ability or not, because I am not a specialist on human physiology and cannot tell what is "Normal" for healing rate. You however took that as me saying that I claimed to be able to do it but are making excuses.....

No, I didn't, I just asked what was wrong with testing.

 

[MoonDragn]

But if there is an implicaton that the feeling of cold spots correlates to something, such as old injuries, and then an attempt to construct a 'healing modality' on top of that correlation...then that would want testing, wouldn't it?

Is there anything innately wrong with moving observations like the above from the realm of the subjective to the objective via testing?

It sure is worth testing out. Is it really all in my mind? Everytime I have felt a cold spot on someone and asked them, it was always confirmed by the other person as relating to some injury either in the present or the past. Most of the time it requires physical touch for me, but in very rare occasions it was possible to do so without touch. Real or not, I do not want an onus of having to prove something to someone. How well do people perform under pressure? How much do we know about these abilities to know if they even work under pressure? Does it require a willing participant? Does it require they believe ? Does it require low lighting? Does it require a certain musical setting?

A truely scientifically conducted test for different conditions would really help too. Anything would be a shot in the dark, but it would be the first step towards understanding.

 

[MoonDragn]

No, I didn't, I just asked what was wrong with testing.

Sorry I was replying to ashe's question.

 

[Moochie]

This crap really pisses me off because while my mom was dying from MS, I had hired a woman to look after her while I couldn't.

As I found out, she was all into Reiki and healing touch and whatnot, and decided to try it on my mom. She'd tell me "she needs more vitamin A, B, C" what the hell ever while waving her skinny arms around my mother's body. Once I realized what was going on, I pretty much fired her and took over again.

My mom died in 2001. This bitch had the nerve to come to the funeral and advise me that I should seek out Sylvia Browne because "she can help you reconnect with your mom."

I didn't strike her, much as I wanted to. I just never spoke to her again.

That is remarkable restraint.

Regards,

 

[Mercutio]

Well I can give you physical challenge like score 75 baskets from 50 feet away in 100 tries. If you fail you are a moron. Thats what I feel about the challenge, its like asking someone to score baskets. These abilities require alot of practice and understanding on how they work. IF they work at all. If you start from a point of disbelief, how can it possibly work at all? Imagine trying to score a basket while people are laughing at you saying you can't do it.

This would be a very good test of someone who claimed that they could score a minimum of 75 baskets from 50 feet away in 100 tries. I don't know of anyone who has claimed that, but if they do, it is a good test.

What is claimed, though, is that reiki has effects on healing. A good test of that would be every bit as self-evident as your basketball test, so that all observers present can tell whether a claimant passed or failed. Even a simpler test would be of your claim that you can feel some people's energy strongly. Simply pick out a few of those people, verify for yourself that you can feel their energy, then try Emily Rosa's procedure with them. See if you can, without the benefit of seeing their hand near yours, still feel their energy. If you cannot, then your perception was likely the result of expectancy. If you can, you are on your way to winning a million.

 

[Ashles]

So what happens when the testers and claimant refuse to agree?

The test will not take place until the protocol is totally agreed. Part of the protocol is agreeing what constitutes a pass.
Obviously it has to be at a rate that is much higher than chance. But this appears to rarely be a problem in protocol negotiations.

When I related my personal experience, I qualified it by saying that I don't know if its a true ability or not, because I am not a specialist on human physiology and cannot tell what is "Normal" for healing rate. You however took that as me saying that I claimed to be able to do it but are making excuses.

You said "I have always been able to heal myself faster than normal by putting my hands on a wound, but I've never believed you could heal at a distance."
There was no qualifier. No element of doubt. You stated that you had the ability quite clearly.

If you had said that you felt that you healed quicker than normal, but weren't sure, then we could have discussed it from that point of view. But you initially made a bald claim as a statement of fact, and in other situations people might have believed you in the first instance even though you have several doubts about your actual ability. That was what I was responding to.

Well I can give you physical challenge like score 75 baskets from 50 feet away in 100 tries. If you fail you are a moron. Thats what I feel about the challenge, its like asking someone to score baskets. These abilities require alot of practice and understanding on how they work. IF they work at all. If you start from a point of disbelief, how can it possibly work at all? Imagine trying to score a basket while people are laughing at you saying you can't do it.

Again you are not talking about the JREF test.

The JREF test is not interested in the mechanism or explanation of a claim, merely can it be demonstrated.
It is other people who make these claims, and they say they can perform reliably.
It isn't like scoring baskets in your made up example, which would be extremely difficult for someone, even if they were an excellent basketball player. The goal of the challenge is not to make it extremely difficult for someone to display their ability - on the contrary every effort wil be expended to make it extrmely easy (whilst removing the potential for cheating).
You example fundamentally misrepresents the JREF challenge. Why would you want to do that?

If you say you have telekinesis they won't ask you to move an unusually heavy object just to make you fail. A piece of paper would do.
We are talking about abilities that are outside known science so even the slightest confirmed exhibition will be of tremendous significance.

And you really need to start reading the challenge applications before you start making incorrect claims about the JREF chalenge.

Nobody would be "laughing at you saying you can't do it" at a claimant - indeed all the actual claimants who actually are tested are treated with respect and are made as comfortable as possible. The last thing the JREF wants is for a claimant to say they could not perform because of the atitude of the testers.

The claims you are making about the JREF test are not fair and just not true.

And remember these forums are not representative of the JREF or their attitude. Just the thoughts and opinions of individual posters from all over the world.
If you actually apply to the challenge you will deal with Kramer who will process your application and the actual testing will be caried out by people who will take the whole thing very seriously.
I honestly recommend you read the challenge application section of the forum.

 

[crimresearch]

Sorry I was replying to ashe's question.

Ahh, my bad, I can see that now.

 

[Psiload]

It sure is worth testing out. Is it really all in my mind? Everytime I have felt a cold spot on someone and asked them, it was always confirmed by the other person as relating to some injury either in the present or the past. ***snip***

What kind of 'injury' are we talking about?

I honestly can't think of a single part of my body that hasn't been subjected to some sort of "injury" in the past. I've bonked my head, been poked in the eye, twisted my neck, wrenched my shoulder, threw out my back, been punched in the gut, fell flat on my ass, been kicked in my ding ding, skinned my knee, barked my shin, stubbed my toes, etc... And I doubt I've lived a much rougher life than most others.

Heck... I think the real trick would be finding a spot on someone's body that hadn't been injured at one time or another.

 

[MoonDragn]

Ashles, you're arguing about semantics of what I said, you know what I meant. If you didn't, then pardon my bad english. I have always had good english. Oh pardon me, was that another statement of fact on my part?

I was not really refering to the challenge exactly, just that people here seem to judge first and ask questions later. What are the agreed to terms? If I was asked to sink 75 baskets, and negotiated to 10, is that still a valid ability? Is it chance then? Like the above poster said, theres pure chance that that every part of the body has been hurt sometimes in the past. Gee I guess that disqualifies my ability then doesn't it?

As you can see, its not just the psychics that have excuses. You can't start putting limits on something you know nothing about, and then decide that is a valid test. I already admited I know nothing about human healing rate, therefore my ability could be natural. I am sure most of you have had your blood colagulate while someone was taking a blood test. I've done that too.

 

[ernon]

Yes Reiki II was supposed to be at a distance. I am actually qualified for Reiki II as well but I would never charge anybody for it..

My personal take on Reiki? Its alot of hoodoo mixed with something that might work close up. I have always been able to heal myself faster than normal by putting my hands on a wound, but I've never believed you could heal at a distance.

I've have gone to Reiki circles to experience first hand what its like from other people and some people you can really feel the energy off of them and some nothing at all.

There is of course no scientific proof whatsoever but usually when I put my hands over someone I can sense "cold spots" which relate almost directly to something wrong with their body.

As for the story with your mom, you're not supposed to do Reiki on anyone without their permission. I'm sorry you feel that way about it but that lady was just sharing her belief. Real or not, it was just a belief.

You are pretty brave to admit on this forum that you hold any beliefs. I have noticed quite a lot of posters here seem to think the work skeptic is synonomous with cynic. I thought skeptic meant 'doubter' and the concept of doubt contains the possibility that something just needs to be proved. I can see no reason why you were personally attacked for what you said above. I didn't see you "pushing your beliefs" off on anyone. Discussion afterall does require one to state a position.

That being said, move over and let me out on that limb with you. I am level III (I didn't pay a penny for any of my levels and I have never charged for a 'treatment') and I still consider myself a skeptic. My degree is in Theology, with a focus on the Summarian writings. Theology is a field overly ripe with woos but I am no longer religious. My studies knocked that right out of me.

In the past 30 years I have kept an open mind and studied quite a few areas of 'metaphysics and parapsycology'. My premisis being that these beliefs must have sprung from something, either a misinterpretation of some natural process or maybe there was something actually going on. Having a good understaning of science, it wasn't hard to strip away the BS and fluff and get down to the core . I have been sorely disappointed, mostly there is nothing there.

My take is there are three kinds of people in these fields, genuine seekers looking at possibilities (ie they might be giants), people who don't know enough about anything and so are taken in by everything and those of the Sylvia Brown ilk who are out to get what they can for themselves at the expense of others, especially those in the second group.

I agree that Reiki is filled with woos, just like every other 'new age' philosophy, how could it be different? As soon as one mentions the word "energy", the charlatans rush out of the woodwork. But I didn't get into it for the philosophy or to make money, but because I have serious pain issues from traumatic injuries suffered in the past and if there was a way to cope without the drugs I was interested. I started investigating Reiki because it does not contain a belief in a diety and those receiving treatment do not have to believe it will work. Both of those things go against everything I have seen and learned in regards to faith healing and therapeutic touch.

In Reiki, I have seen no magical cures, no instantaneous healings that the woo crowd claims for Reiki. What I have found is I can reduce or remove pain from myself and others. I am not trying to get anyone else to believe this, so if anyone reading this is offended by my merely mentioning my opinion, go Rule 8 yourself.

I am still investigating Reiki, so I have yet to arrive at a final conclusion. It does *seem* that something is there, but I am not prepared to declare what that might be or if in fact it is not still just an artifact of the human mind that science hasn't discovered yet.

If I am convinced of the genuineness of Reiki, then I will most certainly apply for the challange. I would be a fool not to, since I think the Reiki challange is just to produce the heat. Most, but not all, people I have sent the 'energy' to have felt it. But it is significant to me that not all people have felt it. I wonder why. Reiki says it is because of free will, they didn't want to accept the energy, but that answers seems just a little convenient to me, so I continue to experiment.

A true skeptic needs to be open to the possibility that there may be things beyond the scope of their present knowledge, but at the same time, man has a brain for a good reason and I intend to use mine to the best of my ability.