sts60
Illuminator
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2007
- Messages
- 4,107
Aw, cut it out; all this praise of my intellect and character is making me blush.
Religious People are Dumb
- Thread starter sadhatter
- Start date
I had a friend who was extremely intelligent in everything except when it came to religion.
One day we were discussing religion and he made the assertion that the Bible is a book of love and that there is NO WHERE in the Bible where god orders anyone to kill anyone and that it is impossible for him to believe that God would order anyone to kill babies or innocent people just to take their land from them.
I of course told him that I can show him a surfeit of verses in the bible where this is indeed the case. He asserted that I cannot do so. We did not have a bible at hand. So that night I took out the bible and wrote on THREE pages verse reference after another …. Just the verse reference…no text.
I went to his house next day and TRIED to hand him the pages. HE REFUSED TO TAKE THE PAGES from my hand. It is not that he took them and did not read them. It is not that he read the verses and disagreed. It is not that he tried to use the stock apologetics….. NOOOOOO…… he refused to even take the pages from my hand. He ABSOLUTELY REFUSED to even consider looking at the pages let alone the verses in the Bible.
Till today he maintains that the God of the Bible DOES NOT order anyone to kill anyone nor does he kill anyone.
Now…. Remember this is a professional guy who earns a pretty good living and is in all aspects of an above average intelligence and perspicacity. YET… when it comes to his BELIEF in his religion he UTTERLY refuses to EXAMINE it in any critical way or even consider doing so.
This is a phenomenon that is not under the category of stupidity. We need to give it a different name and it needs to be analyzed and studied carefully and with a fresh perspective from the point of view of ….. Psychology, Sociology, Anthropology, Neurology, Biology and I am sure a few other OGY’s that I am not aware of.
One day we were discussing religion and he made the assertion that the Bible is a book of love and that there is NO WHERE in the Bible where god orders anyone to kill anyone and that it is impossible for him to believe that God would order anyone to kill babies or innocent people just to take their land from them.
I of course told him that I can show him a surfeit of verses in the bible where this is indeed the case. He asserted that I cannot do so. We did not have a bible at hand. So that night I took out the bible and wrote on THREE pages verse reference after another …. Just the verse reference…no text.
I went to his house next day and TRIED to hand him the pages. HE REFUSED TO TAKE THE PAGES from my hand. It is not that he took them and did not read them. It is not that he read the verses and disagreed. It is not that he tried to use the stock apologetics….. NOOOOOO…… he refused to even take the pages from my hand. He ABSOLUTELY REFUSED to even consider looking at the pages let alone the verses in the Bible.
Till today he maintains that the God of the Bible DOES NOT order anyone to kill anyone nor does he kill anyone.
Now…. Remember this is a professional guy who earns a pretty good living and is in all aspects of an above average intelligence and perspicacity. YET… when it comes to his BELIEF in his religion he UTTERLY refuses to EXAMINE it in any critical way or even consider doing so.
This is a phenomenon that is not under the category of stupidity. We need to give it a different name and it needs to be analyzed and studied carefully and with a fresh perspective from the point of view of ….. Psychology, Sociology, Anthropology, Neurology, Biology and I am sure a few other OGY’s that I am not aware of.
Susheel
Illuminator
Been reading the posts and it is rather sad that recent incidents have forced us skeptics and atheists to come to this conclusion. I don't think it is true. Historically, there have been many religious people who were also smart and also were actively involved in the advance of science. We only recently recognized the anniversary of one such person.
The Shrike
Philosopher
I was raised in a traditional Roman Catholic family, and practiced - rather devoutly in fact - until several years ago when I slowly jettisoned my beliefs and eventually acknowledged my atheism. At a time in my life when I perhaps the sharpest I've ever been (working on my doctorate), I was still very much a faithful Catholic. So I agree with those who've posted that religiosity has little to do with a dumb/smart dichotomy.
The thing that helped me see and acknowledge the sham of religious beliefs was not education or intelligence, it was courage. I finally mustered up the courage to stop praying and going to church. For years I knew there was nothing there, but admitting that to myself was still one of the hardest things I've ever done.
The thing that helped me see and acknowledge the sham of religious beliefs was not education or intelligence, it was courage. I finally mustered up the courage to stop praying and going to church. For years I knew there was nothing there, but admitting that to myself was still one of the hardest things I've ever done.
Kopji
Philosopher
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2003
- Messages
- 8,004
Shermer's 'Why people believe weird things' is better than the title might suggest. I'd recommend that as good reading.
I work with plenty of believing engineers and scientists who are very smart. I'd say that they find that belief in an ordering intelligence to the universe appeals to them.
Mathematics seems a lot like religion to me. God is a lot like Pi, especially if you can't let go of the measuring and just accept the idea of Pi, rather than persist in forever trying to figure it out.
Maybe the smartest people discover how to let go of thinking about things and get on with the doing and living. Some of those discoverers are not religious, and some are.
I work with plenty of believing engineers and scientists who are very smart. I'd say that they find that belief in an ordering intelligence to the universe appeals to them.
Mathematics seems a lot like religion to me. God is a lot like Pi, especially if you can't let go of the measuring and just accept the idea of Pi, rather than persist in forever trying to figure it out.
Maybe the smartest people discover how to let go of thinking about things and get on with the doing and living. Some of those discoverers are not religious, and some are.
PixyMisa
Persnickety Insect
I was going to suggest Shermer's book too.
Some people are stupid all of the time, but all people are stupid some of the time. Most religious people fall into the latter category, along with most skeptics.
Civilisation works by assigning tasks to people according to their field of least stupidity.
Some people are stupid all of the time, but all people are stupid some of the time. Most religious people fall into the latter category, along with most skeptics.
Civilisation works by assigning tasks to people according to their field of least stupidity.
I like this.
Maybe instead of trying to measure people's Intelligence Quotient, Psychologists should be trying to measure Stupidity Deficiencies...
Actually, in this specific example I suspect it is raw fear. I suspect you know of what.
Virus
Philosopher
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- Jun 19, 2006
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- 6,875
catscratch
Student
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2011
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ALL Pigeons Don't Need Holes
Him having a problem with what passes itself off as "religious people," these days, is a good thing. It means that Satan and his army of righteous ministers have no effect on him. Which means he won't be bowing down to antichrist.
If that's ALL thats wrong with his train, he'll just have to believe in the right miracles, when the time comes. Too bad he'll have to live through the Great Tribulation, tho.
Him having a problem with what passes itself off as "religious people," these days, is a good thing. It means that Satan and his army of righteous ministers have no effect on him. Which means he won't be bowing down to antichrist.
If that's ALL thats wrong with his train, he'll just have to believe in the right miracles, when the time comes. Too bad he'll have to live through the Great Tribulation, tho.
What do you think it would take to convince him that a given individual isn't dumb?
Would it be sufficient for me to beat him in strategy games or solve a set of math or physics problems?
If I, or others, could pass his intelligence assessment (preferably administered online) and then explain to him by IM or email that I am, or they are, religious, do you think that would do the job?
Would it be sufficient for me to beat him in strategy games or solve a set of math or physics problems?
If I, or others, could pass his intelligence assessment (preferably administered online) and then explain to him by IM or email that I am, or they are, religious, do you think that would do the job?
Floyt
Chordate
Nicely phrased.
I have found that those who maintain that "religious people are dumb" tend to be the ones who slotted into atheism with a sort of glee - as in, yay I've found my side of the turf war, bring it on! It's a kind of adolescence in philosophical thinking, and as such an enjoyable and perhaps necessary stage once you start to question religion. Getting stuck there, though, shows you aren't really putting much effort into trying to understand people.
The people who built the world's cultures weren't dumb. They phrased their thinking in different metaphors. The metaphor of Rationality is working very well for us right now because all our main pursuits are physical. A different age may have other priorities and tend to another mindset again.
There is really no acceptable evidence that folks who have some religious affiliation are "dumb." It would become so if the result of a sequence of studies rejected the null hypothesis saying that there is no difference between academic achievements between those who check mark the box labeled "Religion" and those who don't. It all depends on the meaning of the word "dumb." Not all Harold Camping's fans parted with their savings or properties, but some genuinely "dumb" souls did.
There are really not many scientifically conducted studies that would directly address the question who is "smart" and who is "dumb," mainly because there is no noticeable indication that the religious folks have been lagging behind in one or more respects, and the opinions of deeply prejudiced atheism are obviously not taken into account by the critically thinking rest of the world.
Not really. If data easily collected proves his 800s (Dewey, fiction, MLS, me) book is untrue/inconsistant in MANY ways, he may lose his faith which is equivalent to losing his belief system WIET losing his identity WIET losing his world view (etc.). He becomes diminished and must go into the West as there is nothing left for him.................
He cannot stand, tolerate, collaborate with that so he will not take your challenge and may well (if he has not already) begin avoiding you.
... or some wise & practical passages:
The priest shall then take some of the log of oil, pour it in the palm of his own left hand.
Leviticus 14:15
Sorry, but I disagree.
To believe in an invisible man in the sky because mommy and daddy told you it was true is the perfect description of being dumb.
That and of course believing in psychics.
Just because you don't like that does not make it any less true.
mutile
Muse
- Joined
- May 20, 2010
- Messages
- 755
I don't think it amounts to dumb, certain individuals may be intelligent but maybe as a group the average intelligence is lower than non religious, the religious may have their intellectual growth held back by their beliefs, reading only one book can't help, that is why I prefer the term retarded, in the sense of their developmental progress being slowed down or delayed.