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Re: Underdown and Release Form (name changed at request of thread starter)

Clancie

Illuminator
C
Joined
May 19, 2002
Messages
3,021
Re: Underdown and CO "Appearance Release Form"*

Just an update....

Several weeks ago, as promised, I sent the CO "Appearance Release"* form to Darat, who scanned it in and forwarded it along to Claus.

The original understanding was that, once Claus had it, he would host it online so that others here could look at it. (I am also interested, in knowing if anyone sees anything the slightest bit suspicious in it--as I don't).

After waiting a while for him to post it, I PM'd him. He now says he may be "using it for an article" in the future and specified no plans to post it for others to see.

I find that quite deceptive of him, to be perfectly honest, particularly after the accusations he and thaiboxerken made that (1) I probably didn't have it and (2) probably wouldn't follow through and send it.

He agreed that, if he received it, he would host it online. Whether he "may use it for an article or not" in the future hardly seems relevant to his original commitment--which, imo, he appears to be breaking now.

[*amended 9/9, since I incorrectly identified the document as a Non-Disclosure Agreement in the thread title. For the record, CO only uses this four page "Appearance Release" form and does not require a non disclosure agreement.]
 
Re: Re: Underdown and CO Non-Disclosure Form

Clancie said:
Just an update....

Several weeks ago, as promised, I sent the CO Non Disclosure form to Darat, who scanned it in and forwarded it along to Claus.

The original understanding was that, once Claus had it, he would host it online so that others here could look at it. (I am also interested, in knowing if anyone sees anything the slightest bit suspicious in it--as I don't).
Click to expand...


You don't? Then why do you later suggest that it is?

Clancie said:
After waiting a while for him to post it, I PM'd him. He now says he may be "using it for an article" in the future and specified no plans to post it for others to see.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting that I would deny people seeing this?

Clancie said:
I find that quite deceptive of him, to be perfectly honest, particularly after the accusations he and thaiboxerken made that (1) I probably didn't have it and (2) probably wouldn't follow through and send it.
Click to expand...

Please point to those accusations.

Clancie said:
He agreed that, if he received it, he would host it online. Whether he "may use it for an article or not" in the future hardly seems relevant to his original commitment--which, imo, he appears to be breaking now.
Click to expand...

I'm not breaking any promise. If people want to see it, they can see it. If they want to wait for an article, that's fine with me, too.
 
Re: Re: Re: Underdown and CO Non-Disclosure Form

CFLarsen said:

I'm not breaking any promise. If people want to see it, they can see it. If they want to wait for an article, that's fine with me, too.
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I would like to see it. Please post it.
 
I feel awful, I have done a disservice to both Clancie and Claus.

Clancie very promptly sent me the document, just as she promised with no delays, no hesitation, no nothing. The only delay was that we agreed to use Linda as an intermediate.

I then asked Clancie, because of the issues I know exist between Clancie & Claus did she me mind me passing it onto Claus, Clancie graciously said that was fine.

However I didn't make any conditions on Claus on how or when he could use it apart from suggesting to him to properly credit Clancie for making it available, and for keeping her word on delivering the goods!

I certainly didn't lay any conditions on him about how he used it or when. He hasn't gone back on anything he said to me.

Therefore I have potentially caused yet more "bad blood" between them, which was the exact opposite of my intentions.

As an intermediate I should have been more careful and clearer in my handling of this situation and I offer an apology to both Clancie and Claus for causing any confusion and adding to an already "bad" situation.

I still have the documents and I will look into a way of getting the document hosted somewhere where it can be made available to anyone with web access. (If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.)
 
Not your fault, at all, Darat, although its kind of you to take responsibility.

Originally, Claus and I had a very clear agreement (I even clarified it in a thread here, just because I don't trust him). It was: I would send it to him and he promised to host it so everyone could see it. (Not to host it just "at his convenience...whenever"--and instead keep it for himself to use, however he wants--as seems to be the case now). He even kept pushing me to commit to a specific timetable to get it to him which I found...annoying.

In fact I found dealing with him so aggravating that I didn't want to do it any more at all. When you offered to be the intermediary so I didn't have to deal with him, I was very grateful.

But at no time was it a document for him. It was clear all along that the only reason he was getting it from me (or via you) was so that he could put it online so everyone could see.

I don't understand how someone who kept pressuring me "two weeks! two weeks to get it here, Clancie" now is so lackadaisical about following through himself with his part.

After all, it was scanned in for him. How hard is it to host it at Skeptic Report as he claimed he wanted to do? :confused:
 
Great, Leroy. That is much appreciated.

(And, Claus, you manipulated me in order to get the information I had received from Underdown solely for your own purposes, from what I can tell, despite your promise that your intent was sharing it here. Another interesting piece of the psychological CFL puzzle has been shown in this, imo....:( )
 
And, just to keep the record straight

Here is the original thread ("John Edward Admits the Truth..."):

non disclosure agreement

On page 2 this was the agreement between Claus and me

Clancie:

I'll mail the pages to you, since you've promised to post them here (or link to it), verbatim for others to see and discuss. That's the agreement (just making sure. Not that I don't trust you or anything.... )


CFLarsen

Clancie,

Check your PM.


Clancie

(And, just to be certain, I'm assuming you agree with the above post, unless you explicitly say otherwise. I'll send it...and you'll put the whole thing up here, intact. Fine.)


CFLarsen

Fine. Two weeks. (meaning, yes, he agreed, and he wanted me to get it to him in 2 weeks).
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So, no ambiguity at all, Darat.
 
So the nondisclosure agreement doesn't say anything about disclosing what's on the nondisclosure agreement?
 
Hey Claus.....

Just post it please. No sense in having a long thread discussing this.

Seems pretty cut and dried.
 
Mr. Skinny said:
Just post it please. No sense in having a long thread discussing this.

Seems pretty cut and dried.
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The tall and skinny guy and the fat and squishy guy seem to agree on this one.
 
I am not sure I understand the cause of Clancie's frustration.
Is it because

Claus has not yet hosted the form, and Clancie perceives this delay as violation of their agreement

Or that he is writing an article about it, and Clancie believes that was not agreed upon.

Or both?

Or neither? :)

I would like to take a glance at the agreement, I am used to reading contracts :) Claus, please host it.
 
It is clear why Clancie is frustrated. She expects Claus to honor his commitment to post the document. I'm sure she doesn't give a flying ◊◊◊◊ if he is writing an article. He can easily post the document while writing it.

Claus, please post the document for our benefit.

Clancie, thank you for taking the time and doing the work!
 
RC said:
It is clear why Clancie is frustrated. She expects Claus to honor his commitment to post the document. I'm sure she doesn't give a flying ◊◊◊◊ if he is writing an article. He can easily post the document while writing it.

Claus, please post the document for our benefit.

Clancie, thank you for taking the time and doing the work!
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Then I did not understand why she mentioned the article in her post :). But I am sure Claus will post it now that he has had several requests, right, Claus?
 
Posted by renata

I did not understand why she mentioned the article in her post .
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You didn't? Its because he now seems to be using the possibility of maybe writing an article as an excuse for reneging on what he promised to do if I sent it to him.
Posted by RC

It is clear why Clancie is frustrated. She expects Claus to honor his commitment to post the document. I'm sure she doesn't give a flying ◊◊◊◊ if he is writing an article. He can easily post the document while writing it.
Click to expand...

Right on all three counts, RC! Of course, I don't care if he writes an article or not. I do care that he promised to post the form so anyone here could read it. I sent it, as agreed, (with Linda and Darat's help), and now he's just making up an excuse to not do as he promised. Writing an article or not...it has nothing to do with posting the document, just as you say.
Posted by renata

But I am sure Claus will post it now that he has had several requests, right, Claus?
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As the saying goes, renata, "from your lips to God's ear".

I certainly -hope- that he will honor his promise now.
 
Clancie, tell me something: If you don't keep your end of the bargain, why do you blame me?

You are the one who has kept these pages to yourself. You play coy for a LOOONG time, making all kinds of excuses not to post them yourself. Then, you promise to send them to me, then you don't want to send it to me (thereby breaking the agreement) anyway because of some imaginary insult. So you send it to Darat instead, with whom I have no "agreement".

Yet, you maintain that it is me who broke the agreement. Can you find no fault with yourself, ever?

You let your personal animosities interfere with a possibly worthwhile issue. It is very clear that you see no reason to let reality interfere with your crusade against my person.

I did not "manipulate" you in any way. You are beginning to sound more and more paranoid. You put me on and off "ignore", seemingly like the wind blows, and now, I'm back on "ignore" - simply because I showed you that you were wrong. But you haven't stopped addressing what I post! How ridiculous is that? If you want to talk, let's talk!

But I will ask you to stop filling up my inbox with wild accusations. Consider yourself warned.

The pages can be found here:

Page 1
Page 2
Page 3
Page 4

Fre' være med det!
 
Well, I can't view the links, but hopefully others can. (And to those whose requests had an affect on you...thanks).

Claus,

Reading your post is quite an eye-opener, but I'll resist the bait because, quite sincerely, I think you have a problem and I admit that I don't understand it. The only comment I have to respond to is this one:
Posted by CFLarsen

But I will ask you to stop filling up my inbox with wild accusations. Consider yourself warned.
Click to expand...

I have not "filled your mail box with wild accusations"...ever.

And I haven't PM'd you at all since I started this thread yesterday--an action I took solely because of your non-responsiveness to my question privately of when you were going to post the form.

After PM'ing you three or four times and getting three or four "answers" indicating to me that you weren't going to post it at all, I decided to start this thread. And that's the last you've heard from me privately.

As you know, I haven't PM'd you about it (or anything else) since then.

Nice smear tactic though.
 
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