RBG leaves the stage.

Republicans are being consistent; they consistently argue in favor of whatever will help them through the current moment. Democrats of course are high-minded and principled and so this time around they will stick to their 2016 principle that a Supreme Court nominee should be voted on as soon as one is nominated by the President.
 
Is that why California the worlds 5th largest economy can't put out fires or keep the power on? Keep dreaming your dream I hope it comes true for you!

The power is a california issue. Complaining about fires is like asking why louisiana can't stop hurricanes. It is the nature of chaparral.
 
Aren't the power companies private businesses?
If they don't build power stations and distribution grid what is the state supposed to do?
Are you advocating state owned power?
Isn't that socialism?
 
Democrats of course are high-minded and principled and so this time around they will stick to their 2016 principle that a Supreme Court nominee should be voted on as soon as one is nominated by the President.

You think this is a fair characterization? So you believe most Democrats do not make a distinction between a seat opening up in February vs. September? It normally takes two months to seat a Supreme Court Justice. That's plenty of time in February, but not so much now (nevermind the pandemic).

In 2016, Republicans were saying we needed to wait more than a year to fill a vacancy. Democrats were saying it was completely do-able to have hearings. The Republicans weren't even close to choosing a nominee for president.
 
This is a thread about RGB. discussion about how the country might be carved up/dissolve into multiple countries and how they would comparatively perform in economic terms is perhaps more suited to the impending Civil War thread.
 
This is a thread about RGB. discussion about how the country might be carved up/dissolve into multiple countries and how they would comparatively perform in economic terms is perhaps more suited to the impending Civil War thread.

Damn you, additive color!! Damn you!!
 
I saw on Twitter that RBG left deathbed instructions that her corpse continue to sit on the bench until after the election at least. It's an interesting proposal, especially since apparently it's the law clerks that do most of the heavy lifting anyway.

But, you know, Twitter. So it's probably not true.
 
Mitch McConnell said:
Since the 1880s, no Senate has confirmed an opposite-party president’s Supreme Court nominee in a presidential election year.
Try the 1980s, Mitch: The Democratic Senate majority joined Republicans in confirming Anthony Kennedy on February 3, 1988, by a vote of 97 to 0.

Ted Cruz got called on this once, and inserted an extra clause that made a similar statement true - Kennedy was nominated in 1987, so he said "nominated in an election year" or some such weasel clause. McConnell forgot the weasel clause.

I wish there was an effective way to call McConnell out on this blatant lie. But I can't think of one.
 
“It has been 80 years since a Supreme Court vacancy was nominated and confirmed in an election year. There is a long tradition that you don’t do this in an election year.”
Ted Cruz, 2016, following Justice Scalia’s death.

"I believe that the president should next week nominee a successor to the court, and I think it is critical that the Senate takes up and confirms that successor before Election Day, this nomination is why Donald Trump was elected."
Ted Cruz, yesterday.

And Lyin' Ted was Lyin' anyhow.
 
Republicans are being consistent; they consistently argue in favor of whatever will help them through the current moment. Democrats of course are high-minded and principled and so this time around they will stick to their 2016 principle that a Supreme Court nominee should be voted on as soon as one is nominated by the President.


No. In 2016 the Republicans and Democrats disagreed over what the proper course of action is when a president nominates a supreme court justice replacement in the final year of their term. Republicans argued that it's proper and traditional to wait until after the election and let the election winner select a nominee to be the new justice; Democrats argued that it's proper and traditional to allow the current president to select a nominee to be the new justice. Republicans won that argument.

The fact they won the argument doesn't mean the Republicans were right about what the policy was prior to 2016 or what the policy should have been in 2016. But it does mean that a precedent was set and that when a supreme court opening comes up during a presidential election year the policy we are now supposed to follow is to wait on the submission of a nominee until after the election so that the election winner can make the selection.

There are basically 2 possibilities: the Republicans were wrong in 2016 when they argued it's proper and traditional to wait, or the Republicans were right in 2016 when they argued it's proper and traditional to wait. Which do you think it is? And, more importantly, which do Republicans now think it is?

If the Republicans still think what they claimed then is right, then the path forward is simple: we continue doing it that way. No nomination should be considered and voted on in the senate until the 2020 election winner is able to make the selection.

But if the Republicans now think what they claimed in 2016 is wrong, there are several choices for how to proceed forward.

(a) The simplest is to admit they were wrong in 2016, apologize for their error then, but acknowledge that a precedent was set in 2016 to wait until after the election and that's now the established rule. If at some future time agreement can be reached to change the policy back to what it used to be that's fine, but until and unless such agreement is reached we continue following the 2016 precedent of waiting. That's a reasonable course which honorable people of both parties should be comfortable with.

(b) Or, there's an alternative honorable course Republicans could take if they now feel that setting a policy of delaying the selection was a mistake which needs to be remedied and that we need to return to the policy of allowing the current president to select the nominee. That's to admit they were wrong in 2016, acknowledge that Merrick Garland's nomination deserved to be voted on, and agree to work with Democrats on addressing and fixing that mistake.

It's too late for Merrick Garland to be considered for the seat Alito left, since that seat has already been filled. But if the GOP now feel that Barack Obama had a right to select a nominee to fill Alito's seat and his selected nominee, Merrick Garland, was improperly denied a vote, then they should pressure Donald Trump to submit Merrick Garland as the nominee to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg and refuse to accept any other nominee from Trump until Garland's nomination has been submitted, discussed and voted on. Once that's been done, there should be no problem returning to previous tradition of letting the sitting president submit a nominee for consideration even during election years -- although, of course, it will likely be quite a ways in the future before the matter comes up again unless another of the current justices dies or resigns before November.

(c) A third path would be for Republicans simply to ignore the wrongness of what they did in 2016 -- denying a Democratic president the chance to fill a supreme court vacancy which occurred during their term in order to steal the opportunity for their party to fill the seat instead -- and simply return to letting the sitting president submit nominees for consideration even in the final year of their presidential term now that the sitting president is a Republican. But obviously it would be very hypocritical and dishonorable on the part of any Republican who chose to follow such a path.

That kind of partisan behavior presents a serious threat to our cooperative democratic form of government, which relies on members of congress putting country above party. There is an obligation for honorable politicians to call out and oppose such partisan behavior when it's as blatant as this and when it's on a matter as important as this. It would be neither high-minded nor principled for Democrats to go along with such a blatantly partisan attempt to subvert the way supreme court justices are approved, and I am surprised you would use those words to describe it. I hope you weren't serious, and that was simply an attempt at humor on your part.
 
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No. In 2016 the Republicans and Democrats disagreed over what the proper course of action is when a president nominates a supreme court justice replacement in the final year of their term. Republicans argued that it's proper and traditional to wait until after the election and let the election winner select a nominee to be the new justice; Democrats argued that it's proper and traditional to allow the current president to select a nominee to be the new justice. Republicans won that argument.

The fact they won the argument doesn't mean the Republicans were right about what the policy was prior to 2016 or what the policy should have been in 2016. But it does mean that a precedent was set and that when a supreme court opening comes up during a presidential election year the policy we are now supposed to follow is to wait on the submission of a nominee until after the election so that the election winner can make the selection.

There are basically 2 possibilities: the Republicans were wrong in 2016 when they argued it's proper and traditional to wait, or the Republicans were right in 2016 when they argued it's proper and traditional to wait. Which do you think it is? And, more importantly, which do Republicans now think it is?

If the Republicans still think what they claimed then is right, then the path forward is simple: we continue doing it that way. No nomination should be considered and voted on in the senate until the 2020 election winner is able to make the selection.

But if the Republicans now think what they claimed in 2016 is wrong, there are several choices for how to proceed forward.

(a) The simplest is to admit they were wrong in 2016, apologize for their error then, but acknowledge that a precedent was set in 2016 to wait until after the election and that's now the established rule. If at some future time agreement can be reached to change the policy back to what it used to be that's fine, but until and unless such agreement is reached we continue following the 2016 precedent of waiting. That's a reasonable course which honorable people of both parties should be comfortable with.

(b) Or, there's an alternative honorable course Republicans could take if they now feel that setting a policy of delaying the selection was a mistake which needs to be remedied and that we need to return to the policy of allowing the current president to select the nominee. That's to admit they were wrong in 2016, acknowledge that Merrick Garland's nomination deserved to be voted on, and agree to work with Democrats on addressing and fixing that mistake.

It's too late for Merrick Garland to be considered for the seat Alito left, since that seat has already been filled. But if the GOP now feel that Barack Obama had a right to select a nominee to fill Alito's seat and his selected nominee, Merrick Garland, was improperly denied a vote, then they should pressure Donald Trump to submit Merrick Garland as the nominee to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg and refuse to accept any other nominee from Trump until Garland's nomination has been submitted, discussed and voted on. Once that's been done, there should be no problem returning to previous tradition of letting the sitting president submit a nominee for consideration even during election years -- although, of course, it will likely be quite a ways in the future before the matter comes up again unless another of the current justices dies or resigns before November.

(c) A third path would be for Republicans simply to ignore the wrongness of what they did in 2016 -- denying a Democratic president the chance to fill a supreme court vacancy which occurred during their term in order to steal the opportunity for their party to fill the seat instead -- and simply return to letting the sitting president submit nominees for consideration even in the final year of their presidential term now that the sitting president is a Republican. But obviously it would be very hypocritical and dishonorable on the part of any Republican who chose to follow such a path.

That kind of partisan behavior presents a serious threat to our cooperative democratic form of government, which relies on members of congress putting country above party. There is an obligation for honorable politicians to call out and oppose such partisan behavior when it's as blatant as this and when it's on a matter as important as this. It would be neither high-minded nor principled for Democrats to go along with such a blatantly partisan attempt to subvert the way supreme court justices are approved, and I am surprised you would use those words to describe it. I hope you weren't serious, and that was simply an attempt at humor on your part.

1. Do the rules allow behavior X? Yes.
2. Do the rules allow behavior Y, which is the opposite of X? Yes.
3. Do the rules allow the same person to do X at one point in time, and Y at another? Yes.

There appears to be nothing in the rules about being consistent, being decent, being ethnical, or not being an unmitigated donkey-butt. If those are principles that matter to the people, the people ought to see that the rules are amended to reflect them. Until such time, the rules is what the rules is, and every player is going to play to their own maximum advantage at every opportunity allowed within the rules. Expecting anything else is naive, if not downright idiotic. One wins a game by winning, not by nobly exemplifying one's dedication to rules from a different game, or rules as they should be in an ideal world, or rules as they will be amended in a future date TBD.
 
“It has been 80 years since a Supreme Court vacancy was nominated and confirmed in an election year. There is a long tradition that you don’t do this in an election year.”
Ted Cruz, 2016, following Justice Scalia’s death.
See, this is how Ted Cruz split this hair. By sticking the "nominated" in there he is not technically lying.

Why is he in such a rush to do it before the election? I can't see any tactical advantage. There are some tight Senate races in which being seen as a Trump lackey really has no obvious upside. And it's pretty ******* rich that contenders for the seat are loudly calling for swift action.

It's possible that calling for such action is the main point - a bit of virtue signaling while knowing some GOP senators are going to be balk at the timeline.
 
....
Why is he in such a rush to do it before the election? I can't see any tactical advantage. There are some tight Senate races in which being seen as a Trump lackey really has no obvious upside. And it's pretty ******* rich that contenders for the seat are loudly calling for swift action.
....

If they do it now, they can at least claim that they are exercising their legitimate authority. If they do it during a lame-duck session after an election that puts Biden in the White House and turns the Senate to the Dems, it is a blatant abuse of power.
 
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If they do it now, they can at least claim that they are exercising their legitimate authority. If they do it after an election that puts Biden in the White House and turns the Senate to the Dems, it is a blatant abuse of power.

As if they care.
 
If they do it now, they can at least claim that they are exercising their legitimate authority. If they do it after an election that puts Biden in the White House and turns the Senate to the Dems, it is a blatant abuse of power.

No, it would be a jerk move, but it wouldn't be an abuse of power because that power is entirely legitimately theirs at that point. Just because you, me, anyone, or everyone wishes they would choose not to do something doesn't mean it's abuse of power. It's just power.
 
As they should complain.....and then take the vote on Trump's nominee (probably during the lame duck period)?

If you want a norm, then you should apply the norm to your own behavior?

Nope, nope not doing it, not going to let the thread be bobbed.
 
OK here's a fantasy scenario: The nominee is not confirmed before the election because it's really not a good look for a few key senators. Then, if there's a lame-duck Senate, a few Republicans join Dems in boycotting a vote to confirm. A quorum is 51, so the Senate would not be able to act.
 
If they do it now, they can at least claim that they are exercising their legitimate authority. If they do it after an election that puts Biden in the White House and turns the Senate to the Dems, it is a blatant abuse of power.
I'm pretty sure it would stick a fork in my state's Republican Senate candidate. Lindsey Graham is in a very tight race. Collins will probably lose. But more to the point: Do you think these weasels give a damn about appearing to exercise legitimate authority? [ETA: Ninja'd by Stacyhs]

A few do. That might be enough, in fact I think it's likely that some senators are going to be "allowed" to voice reservations and delay a vote. The "before election day" is just chest-thumping virtue signaling.
 
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