Randi Gets Rude...

[roger]

I agree about rejecting the claim. But that's not what "indefinite" means.

Sure, but in the case of the Breatharians, they do claim immortality. They claim people have lived over 6,000 years by this practice. Somehow they forgot to mention who these people are; I wonder why.....

 

[Preston]

Ah. I was mistaking indefinate with infinite for some reason when I typed that.

 

[MRC_Hans]

That letter may be a fake, but let's face it: James Randi IS generally rather rude and grumpy . I don't think this is very benificial for his image, nor for the JREF mission, but I expect it comes with having heard so much BS.

Wo-woos will use it of course to try to miscredit him, but it is of no actual importance: If you file an invalid claim, it remains invalid, regardless of wether you are told so politely or rudely.

Remember Carlos Swett? After his ridiculous claim (yeah, I'm a rude old man too) was rejected and picked apart, he went on for an entire year, bickering about the way he had been told that his claim was ridiculous. Actually he would still be at it if he had not been stopped forcefully

Hans

 

[synaesthesia]

Wo-woos will use it of course to try to miscredit him, but it is of no actual importance: If you file an invalid claim, it remains invalid, regardless of wether you are told so politely or rudely.

A bit of stick offends the ego, but can do as well as a carrot. I don't see why we should be terribly tolerant of self-inflicted idiocy. Thinking you can pass a determinemillion dollar challenge test generally qualifies.

 

[tonygraham]

Surely, if any animal had developed the ability to live without the need for food, this would be a huge evolutionary advantage to them and the ability would spread very quickly through the species. So, we'd all be living on only water!

 

[tonygraham]

Of course, these people probably don't 'believe' in evolution.

 

[Charlie in Dayton]

Okay. Here's the take of someone who sorta kinda actually tried this crap once...

Away back when, the squadron commander gave me the straight scoop, as in "You will make the weight limits the Air Force prescribes for your height by the last day of January, or on the first day of February you will not sew on that third stripe." Seeing as that meant no NCO status, I buckled down and did one of the dumber things I ever did.

Daily intake: 500 units of Vitamin E, 3 One-A-Day brand multivitamins, and 45mg of Dexedrine a day (this was back when they prescribed it as an appetite suppressant -- and I'd built up a handy little stock of it, legally I might add), and all the water I could drink.

Additional weekly intake: Saturday night, 6 pm, up at the Jet Stream when Star Trek came on channel 50 out of Detroit, two Polish sausages on hot dog buns, and a mug of beer.

That was it.

I sewed on the stripes, having lost 32 pounds in 31 days. Doesn't matter that I waited too long to find a bed one night when them pills wore off immediately...they found me in the hall, on my knees with my head against the door, sound asleep, and the key was in the lock...

I was younger and stupider back then...and that will be enough of the "Whaddaya mean 'back then'" garbage...

So, on the basis of personal experience, anecdotal as it is, I have to say to anyone that claims of living off water and sunshine (h*ll, I'll be generous and let you throw in a triple handful of vitamins and supplements) are highly suspicious, bordering on outright fraudulent.

Translation: I remain unconvinced.

 

[NullPointerException]

No food is dangerous

This letter is an obvious edit, if you look the fold lines have distorted the lefthand side of the text that was on the original letterhead they received but not the signature which remains perfectly straight. There is no question that this is an edited letter.

In regards to the claim to test it all you have to do is perform a colonoscopy or urinalysis.

 

[walthrup48]

Bumped to prevent pruning of thread.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I hadn't seen this thread the first time around, but I can't believe no one pointed out what is painfully obvious:

Rhesus Negative = Rico Kolodzey

 

[Hand Bent Spoon]

You're basing your conclusion on a preconceived notion. Not very scientific, eh?

It is a well-established scientific fact that human beings need food to survive. It is hardly a preconceived notion.

 

[robbersdog]

Re: No food is dangerous

This letter is an obvious edit, if you look the fold lines have distorted the lefthand side of the text that was on the original letterhead they received but not the signature which remains perfectly straight. There is no question that this is an edited letter.

In regards to the claim to test it all you have to do is perform a colonoscopy or urinalysis.

Firstly, no, the letter is not a fake in my opinion. Whether it is from Randi or not is another question (why don't we just ask? Mr. Randi my be a little grouchy, but he would appear to be honest). The ink marks on the top third of the letter match exactly to the printed words in the middle third. There are various other ways to test something like this, if anyone wants to know all the things I've done to test this, PM me. I don't want to bore everyone with this here.

Secondly, the claim is that the person can survive with only water. For the test to be valid, the claim would need to be shown to be false. The subject would have to be shown to not survive. If the test is stopped at any time, you may have shown that there is evidence that person may not have survived much longer, but nothing will have been proved. I agree with the colonoscopy and urinalysis, but these people claim to be able to get nutriment from the air and sun etc. so would probably claim this is where it all came from. Very silly, but we're not dealling with people who are sensible. This claim is no more bizzare than the original.

I don't think it would be responsible of the JREF to test a claim like this. I don't think that signing a contract would help the JREFs position should things go wrong.

Mr. Randi is sometimes abbrupt, so I end with a quote (this is the entire text from a reply he sent me to an email I sent about a run of the mill penta water type claim. It was probably more than I deserved!)

"Okay, so this is nonsense...."

 

[Kopji]

I suggest that JREF get a nice large "person-sized" box for these claims with some holes punched in the lid for "fresh air".

The general rule would be that due to the large number of claimants, they could only test one per year.

Scatter a few human bones on the floor ahead of time, and offer to lock the claimant in, returning in a year to check on them. (An easy 1 million $ per year)

Hey JREF could link a webcam in, I'm sure such a thing would be a popular destination.

 

[Randi]

This is Randi. Please, this matter of living-without-eating is just such nonsense, that I find it hard to believe it's earned such a large amount of attention. That letter is quite real, not faked, I meant it and I still mean it.

Why should I spin my wheels feeding the ego of such a person? A test of his silly claim would occupy much more of my time than I'm willing to invest, and it would only feed the arsenal of those who love to accuse us of investigating only the easy cases. As soon as that test would be completed, another similar one would pop up, and we'd be off again -- "You tested him, why won't you test me?"

Many years ago, we tested a chap in San Francisco who'd made the same claim. We camped outside the Holiday Inn where we'd placed him, and at about 2 in the morning, he left for the local all-night MacDonald's and retuned with a huge bag of cheeseburgers. He said he only intended to inhale them, not eat them. Now, that makes him look silly, of course, but IT ALSO MAKES US LOOK SILLY, for having organized a test in the first place!

Cloud-busting and living-without-eating are off the JREF list, because they're just so damn silly and juvenile.

 

[tamiO]

Now, that makes him look silly, of course, but IT ALSO MAKES US LOOK SILLY, for having organized a test in the first place!

Cloud-busting and living-without-eating are off the JREF list, because they're just so damn silly and juvenile.

It doesn't make you look silly at all!

I would have loved to see all that on a television, I bet it was hilarious! There has to be a way to capitalise on all that great content that wacky-asses provide.

Good to see you on the forum. I wish you would post more often.

 

[Wrath of the Swarm]

Well, it's not what I would call an ideal way to deal with the problem...

...but I suppose it's really no different than the Patent Office refusing to look at perpetual motion machines. If the claim is for real, then at least we can be certain that such a revolutionary and earthshaking discovery can be verified in other ways, and if it's not, then JREF doesn't waste their time and effort.

Still, it does damage your credibility just a little. I'm convinced they're liars, and you're convinced they're liars, but now we can't say that we gave them the opportunity to prove otherwise.

 

[robbersdog]

If the JREF was a government ageincy with countless billions at it's disposal then maybe it would be able to test all the loonies which crawl out of the woodwork. We have to keep things in perspective here, the JREF can only test so many people. To test such a claim would surely be a waste of resources?

I don't agree that the failed test Mr. Randi mentioned makes the JREF look silly, but I can understand how they may have felt silly. A few people here seem to think that unless the JREF can prove conclusively that there is nothing paranormal in the whole universe, then it's failing!

I have to say, I'm surprised about all the speculation about the letter being faked. Why didn't anyone just ask? I have to say it though, I was right! (I like to be smug every now and again, I don't get the chance very often!)

 

[Pyrrho]

Bump.

 

[Peter Morris]

C.F.Larsen : "It's a fake.

Two decades of working with computer graphics tells me so.

Here's how I can see why it is a fake:

The letters are way too clear for a scan. Compared to the rest of the content, the letters are the only things that are crisp and clear.....

Zep : I reckon the letter is a complete and utter fake. The proof is quite simple to see.

1. Look at the second horizontal fold in the paper, the one going through Randi's signature. That fold is quite rough and appears to have been folded either very roughly, or it has been refolded a number of times.

2. Look closely at the items on the letter this fold passes through: an address block on the sidebar on the left, and Randi's signature......

NullPointerException: This letter is an obvious edit, if you look the fold lines have distorted the lefthand side of the text that was on the original letterhead they received but not the signature which remains perfectly straight. There is no question that this is an edited letter.

Randi : That letter is quite real, not faked

Uh, guys, and I mean especially CF Larsen, when someone makes a paranormal claim, and your expert analysis and specialised knowledge shows them to be obviously faking it, maybe you were wrong about that too, is it possible ?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Uh, guys, and I mean especially CF Larsen, when someone makes a paranormal claim, and your expert analysis and specialised knowledge shows them to be obviously faking it, maybe you were wrong about that too, is it possible ?

Uh, yeah' . Maybe.. I'ts possible.. But the world still waits for that first verifiable paranormal claim...

Chirrrrrrrp.....