Randi Gets Rude...

[quixotecoyote]

Given that edited photos do not always mean fake photos, are we going to enter a warm and fuzzy era when we embrace the UFO cult with open arms?

 

[AgingYoung]

Sure we can be wrong! That's what being a skeptic human means.

Now...

How many times have the woo-woos admitted THEY are wrong??

When I first read that comment I thought it was a fact. I was wrong. I've corrected it to reflect reality.

Gene
Woo at Large

 

[Solus]

Sure we can be wrong! That's what being a skeptic means.

Now...

How many times have the woo-woos admitted THEY are wrong??

I just thought it was funny that CFLarsen hasn't admitted his error.
This thread link was in the details for the challenge on the main page (is it still there I wonder). I bookmarked this thread a long while ago and meant to bring up at some point as I found it quite amusing.

It's still on the challenge FAQ check the footnotes
http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html

It's a fake.

Two decades of working with computer graphics tells me so.

Here's how I can see why it is a fake:

• The letters are way too clear for a scan. Compared to the rest of the content, the letters are the only things that are crisp and clear.
• All of the lines are lined up perfectly. I mean, there is not even a single pixel difference. This is virtually impossible, if the paper had been scanned. There will always be some displacement.
• If you look at the left side of the image, you will see the black border tapers off by one or two pixels, as expected. However, the lines of text are perfectly lined up.

I am pretty convinced that this has been investigated before. The name sounds familiar.

Sounds good...

This is Randi. Please, this matter of living-without-eating is just such nonsense, that I find it hard to believe it's earned such a large amount of attention. That letter is quite real, not faked, I meant it and I still mean it.

Why should I spin my wheels feeding the ego of such a person? A test of his silly claim would occupy much more of my time than I'm willing to invest, and it would only feed the arsenal of those who love to accuse us of investigating only the easy cases. As soon as that test would be completed, another similar one would pop up, and we'd be off again -- "You tested him, why won't you test me?"

Many years ago, we tested a chap in San Francisco who'd made the same claim. We camped outside the Holiday Inn where we'd placed him, and at about 2 in the morning, he left for the local all-night MacDonald's and retuned with a huge bag of cheeseburgers. He said he only intended to inhale them, not eat them. Now, that makes him look silly, of course, but IT ALSO MAKES US LOOK SILLY, for having organized a test in the first place!

Cloud-busting and living-without-eating are off the JREF list, because they're just so damn silly and juvenile.

Woos of course ALMOST NEVER admit they are wrong, of those that have they would lose the adjective "woo" by default anyway.

 

[/\/\arko]

I really do think, though, that Randi and the JREF should put location and date of writing into their written correspondence. I first assumed a fake letter because of this.

Wow, not a week since I've registered to the forum, and the first thread I'm reading beginning to end is this one!

 

[AgingYoung]

...

Woos of course ALMOST NEVER admit they are wrong, of those that have they would lose the adjective "woo" by default anyway.

I will not give up the adjective "woo" that easily, Solus! There will be a fight!!

Cool spelling of your name, /\/\arko.

Gene,
Woo at Large

 

[The Atheist]

It's a fake.

Two decades of working with computer graphics tells me so.

Here's how I can see why it is a fake:

• The letters are way too clear for a scan. Compared to the rest of the content, the letters are the only things that are crisp and clear.
• All of the lines are lined up perfectly. I mean, there is not even a single pixel difference. This is virtually impossible, if the paper had been scanned. There will always be some displacement.
• If you look at the left side of the image, you will see the black border tapers off by one or two pixels, as expected. However, the lines of text are perfectly lined up.

I am pretty convinced that this has been investigated before. The name sounds familiar.

 

[robinson]

I looked at the letter in question, long ago, didn't seem to be a fake. I agree with Randi. Foolish claims should not be encouraged in any way.

 

[Pro7]

Who would want to live without food? lol.. there are different varieties of delicious food out there, I wouldnt want to miss the pleasure of eating them ..

I think Liar equals Fraud. I really actually think it means the same thing lol.

 

[Klaymore]

What was the windup on this anyway? If I remember correctly, Randi finally just said "screw it" and offered to negotiate test protocols with no-food-dude, but NFD hasn't bitten (bitten... get it?).

Is that right?

 

[Klaymore]

And when I say "Is that right," I mean "is it correct that they offered to negotiate test protocols with NFD." I don't mean "is it right to agree to test a man who doesn't want to eat?"

I'm still up in the air as to whether it's ethical to test NFD, or whether there's even a way to do it without incurring major legal liability issues... But damn it would be funny to see video of that guy begging to be let out of his cage so he could get him some KFC!

 

[Georg]

What was the windup on this anyway? If I remember correctly, Randi finally just said "screw it" and offered to negotiate test protocols with no-food-dude, but NFD hasn't bitten (bitten... get it?).

Is that right?

There was a short notice on SWIFT a while ago.
Mr. Randi wrote that they were (are?) negotiating a protocol since more then 100 days, leading nowhere. Sad. I´d love to see him beeing tested since this is one of the most ridiculous claims possible. I´d also like to read the negotiation, but unfortunately these negotiations aren´t published anymore. I wrote to Mr. Randi after the SWIFT article asking him to make an exception while I wasn´t a member of the forum yet, and got a short but friendly reply: "Thank you Georg. I appreciate your input." If anybody has more information on that (nut-) case, I would love to hear about it.

 

[robinson]

Testing a claim like this would be like testing someone who claims they can fly, without any device/assistance at all. A waste of time.

 

[Klaymore]

Testing a claim like this would be like testing someone who claims they can fly, without any device/assistance at all. A waste of time.

Well, of course it would be a waste of time, if what you mean by "waste of time" is that the claim would fail. That's the point of the challenge, though (as I understand it). ALL of the claims fail, because they're all ridiculous.

Is claiming to be able to live on air and water any more stoopid than claiming you can communicate with the dead or call UFOs from the sky? Is it somehow less meritorious than the exalted claim that you can use the antenna from an '89 Dodge truck to locate a natural hotspring?

The biggest difference between this claim and all of the others is that it's so much easier to test than they are! 1) Lock homeboy in a cell, and 2) watch him.

Now, that having been said, there are big problems with letting some crazy jerk starve himself on your property, and those have all been addressed (correctly I think) by the change to the rules that prohibits hurting yourself as part of the claim.

But I certainly wouldn't consider that test a waste of time. Nor would I consider a test of flying a waste of time. It's simple and cheap to conduct, and requires very little protocol. Meet the applicant in the parking lot of an AM/PM with a video camera, and if he flys, give him the money!

 

[robinson]

Well, of course it would be a waste of time, if what you mean by "waste of time" is that the claim would fail. That's the point of the challenge, though (as I understand it). ALL of the claims fail, because they're all ridiculous.

You do bring up an interesting point. The MDC isn't about finding some new ability, or researching paranormal stuff, it is about exposing frauds, and educating people on frauds, cons, and trickery. And maybe self delusion.

So a claim of flying or eating air is of little value, because almost nobody believes that. Religion, Ghost, Telepathy, Dowsing, Readings, etc have many more people who believe, hence not a waste of time.

I know some people who still think fire walking is a myth. If Randi still thought it was woo, I could win a million bucks. It is about what Randi thinks is woo, that counts. But if pretty much everybody else on the planet agrees with Randi, it is a waste of time to accept something as a challenge.

Unless you could get entertainment value out of it.

 

[Klaymore]

I guess when I set up my own $1,000,000 challenge, I can run it however I want!

 

[The Atheist]

But I certainly wouldn't consider that test a waste of time. Nor would I consider a test of flying a waste of time. It's simple and cheap to conduct, and requires very little protocol. Meet the applicant in the parking lot of an AM/PM with a video camera, and if he flys, give him the money!

Actually, that's a bloody good idea!

Think of the footage of Darwin Awards nominees you'd get - you'd make a million the easy way!

Only thing is, the guy flying might be a short video...

 

[Georg]

So a claim of flying or eating air is of little value, because almost nobody believes that. Religion, Ghost, Telepathy, Dowsing, Readings, etc have many more people who believe, hence not a waste of time.

That´s not entirely true. There are people that believe that BS and there have been deaths of followers of this "movement" in the past. Just google for Ellen Greve, the Australian leader of the pack, and you´ll get a lot of hits. While a hardcore cynic could say that this is evolution at work, I think it´s important to expose her and other protagonists for what they are: dangerous frauds. If that helps to save the life of innocent persons that are mentally ill or just deluded, it´s worth it.
And I think it is possible to test without endangering the life of the applicant.
Put them in a cell, no food, no water and then control the weight of the person. If he has lost weight after maybe two days, he failed. If he is able to keep his weight or even gain some (after an extra portion of light/air), he wins. Definitely easier to test than some other claims that have been formulated.

 

[Klaymore]

And I think it is possible to test without endangering the life of the applicant.
Put them in a cell, no food, no water and then control the weight of the person. If he has lost weight after maybe two days, he failed. If he is able to keep his weight or even gain some (after an extra portion of light/air), he wins. Definitely easier to test than some other claims that have been formulated.

That's a pretty damn-good test! I wonder how long you can continue to gain weight by just drinking water, though? I'm pretty sure homeboy was going to live on air and water...

 

[Georg]

That's a pretty damn-good test! I wonder how long you can continue to gain weight by just drinking water, though? I'm pretty sure homeboy was going to live on air and water...

Ah, I didn´t realize the "water-part". After checking his homepage sabondotorg (replace the dot with a ".", I´m not allowed to post links yet) I see you are right. Water with lemon juice and tea of fennel, that´s it. O.K., living without food but drinking allowed.......
Just put him in the cell for a longer time, one can go without food for maybe a week or two without health dangers. Even if he drinks a lot, he should lose weight after a while, given he doesn´t start the test totally dehydrated. Any doctors here that could comment?
Since it isn´t too hard to do the protocol part, I would be very interested in the negotiations, or better: the way he weasels out of actually beeing tested after beeing such a loudmouth.

 

[Cuddles]

That´s not entirely true. There are people that believe that BS

That's the point. There are people, but there really aren't very many of them. In a world with ove 6 billion people you can find somone that believes pretty much anything you can think up. A significant portion of the world believe in things like dowsing and psychics, so it is worth the time to try to expose them. If even the optimistic estimates place the number of breatharians no higher than 5000 it is simply not worth the bother. The JREF has very limited resources, and is actually a lot smaller than many people seem to think. Yes, it would be nice if they could look at things like this, but with people like Sylvia defrauding millions the more obscure crazies don't even show up on the radar. And as Randi said, testing claims that basically no-one believes in actually hurts the JREF since it makes them look silly.