Randi Gets Rude...

[Georg]

That's the point. There are people, but there really aren't very many of them. In a world with ove 6 billion people you can find somone that believes pretty much anything you can think up. A significant portion of the world believe in things like dowsing and psychics, so it is worth the time to try to expose them. If even the optimistic estimates place the number of breatharians no higher than 5000 it is simply not worth the bother. The JREF has very limited resources, and is actually a lot smaller than many people seem to think. Yes, it would be nice if they could look at things like this, but with people like Sylvia defrauding millions the more obscure crazies don't even show up on the radar. And as Randi said, testing claims that basically no-one believes in actually hurts the JREF since it makes them look silly.

I see the problem with the limited resources. Why not leave the protocol negotiations for the pretest to the smaller Skeptic organisations in the homelands of the applicants? The GWUP (the German skeptic organisation) could easily do that, they are offering tests as well, and this Rico Kolodzey is from Germany. And Mr. Randi is not absolutely consistent on this matter, he offered Helen Greve the test (she didn´t accept), and so he did with Kolodzey.
The claw: defrauding millions? Is she? Maybe a lot of the watchers of Montel (didn´t see it myself, since I´m from Germany) just see it for entertainment reasons. Of course she needs to be attacked, no doubt about that, but only going for the big fish that don´t take the challenge anyway isn´t the solution in my opinion.
Dowsing: yes, much more people believe in that, but it was debunked by Mr. Randi and others quite a time ago and quite often as far as I know. Does it really make sense to test it every 5 years? Maybe.
So, how many bleevers are sufficient so that a test should be offered?
10000? A million?
Those "Breatharians" are dangerous, so every opportunity should be taken to expose them. Quite the same as with homoeopaths and the other sCAMers that actually endanger life and health of persons, so it is well worth the bother.
Sorry if my English is far from perfect, but it is not my first language, and I am trying my best.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

I guess when I set up my own $1,000,000 challenge, I can run it however I want!

I ONE THE KLEYMOOR CHALENGE!!!! NOW PAY ME MY MILION DOLLASR!!!!!!!!!!

(Just to give you a taste of what to expect.)

 

[Klaymore]

I ONE THE KLEYMOOR CHALENGE!!!! NOW PAY ME MY MILION DOLLASR!!!!!!!!!!

(Just to give you a taste of what to expect.)

Sorry Kryzt, you did not win the Klaymore $1,000,000 yet. I've been thinking of the rules, and here they are:

1) Toss Klaymore's salad at rush hour in the middle of the "Hachiko" crosswalk next to Shibuya Station in Tokyo (the most crowded intersection in the world, as seen in "Lost in Translation" and "Fast & Furious: Tokyo Drift);
2) Win $1;
3) Repeat 9,999,999 more times to CLAIM YOUR MILLION!

That's it! No application, no protocol negotions, no "lemon water with fennel" (although you'll probably want to wash your mouth out with something...)

 

[Klaymore]

Oh, but the other point I was going to make: from what I've seen it doesn't matter so much whether woos believe in this particular power or not. The problem is that now all of the paranormal-lovers out there talk about how the challenge isn't real (which they do anyway, I admit), and how Randi is just a liar (which they do anyway, I admit).

But good lord above, just to see the video of that dude PRESSED against the bars of his cage, STRAINING to reach a McFish(tm) sandwich and glass of Fresca(tm)...

 

[GzuzKryzt]

That's a pretty damn-good test! I wonder how long you can continue to gain weight by just drinking water, though? I'm pretty sure homeboy was going to live on air and water...

Ah, I didn´t realize the "water-part". After checking his homepage sabondotorg (replace the dot with a ".", I´m not allowed to post links yet) I see you are right. Water with lemon juice and tea of fennel, that´s it. O.K., living without food but drinking allowed.......
Just put him in the cell for a longer time, one can go without food for maybe a week or two without health dangers. Even if he drinks a lot, he should lose weight after a while, given he doesn´t start the test totally dehydrated. Any doctors here that could comment?
Since it isn´t too hard to do the protocol part, I would be very interested in the negotiations, or better: the way he weasels out of actually beeing tested after beeing such a loudmouth.

It is actually possible to live without solid food for quite some time, without risking significant health damage. One of the keys is to beef up your fluids, while still calling them water.

With the term water, we associate an odorless, colorless liquid, with no added substances. Breatharians often use the term water, when the in fact mean fluids. You can easily imagine how to beef up water to hold some nutritional value, while it still mostly consists of H2O: Chicken broth, sports drinks, beer, etc.

"George Hamilton" for example uses the term liquid nutrition, which of course broadens the plate substantially.

A recent SWIFT entry: http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-02/020209morebrowne.html#i2

From personal experience with fasting cures, I can verify that it is possible to live without food for ten days - easily. Consult your family doctor before, during and afterwards. In a nutshell: If you ensure intake of basic nutrients, stick to your plan but immediately stop at the first sign of dearth, you are basically only reducing your calorie supply. Which is of course nothing else but a strict - and questionable - diet.

Motivation is of course a key ingredient. Why would one abstain from food, when throughout earth history, we have fought hard battles to ensure basic nutrition through the course of the year? (And billions still do.)



I had the chance to experience the stories of several monks who were required to fast during their yearly retreats. The gist: They weren't allowed solid foods, but e.g. all the beer (along with broth, milk, etc.) they can drink. This is of course anecdotal evidence at best.
But that's a faith I could get behind! Zum Wohl!

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Sorry Kryzt, you did not win the Klaymore $1,000,000 yet. I've been thinking of the rules, and here they are:

1) Toss Klaymore's salad at rush hour in the middle of the "Hachiko" crosswalk next to Shibuya Station in Tokyo (the most crowded intersection in the world, as seen in "Lost in Translation" and "Fast & Furious: Tokyo Drift);
2) Win $1;
3) Repeat 9,999,999 more times to CLAIM YOUR MILLION!

That's it! No application, no protocol negotions, no "lemon water with fennel" (although you'll probably want to wash your mouth out with something...)

I ONE THE KLEYMOOR CHALENGE!!!! WHERE'S MY MILION DOLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Klaymore]

I ONE THE KLEYMOOR CHALENGE!!!! WHERE'S MY MILION DOLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, no, no! I carefully, patiently, and politely explained the parameters of the challenge to you! Please consult the contest rules, which are stated clearly above. I wish you the best of success!

If you desire further clarification, please feel free to pose any questions you may have... however until the terms of the contest are satisfied, we will be unable to transfer any funds to you.

 

[Almo]

The guy is lying. Period.

We have ample evidence on how the world works. I'm not going to pretend to be "open minded" about the ability to live on only air & water. It's an absurd claim based on either massive delusion or intentional deceit.

Yeah. We know how cellular biology works.

 

[Georg]

It is actually possible to live without solid food for quite some time, without risking significant health damage. One of the keys is to beef up your fluids, while still calling them water.



From personal experience with fasting cures, I can verify that it is possible to live without food for ten days - easily. Consult your family doctor before, during and afterwards. In a nutshell: If you ensure intake of basic nutrients, stick to your plan but immediately stop at the first sign of dearth, you are basically only reducing your calorie supply. Which is of course nothing else but a strict - and questionable - diet.

Thanks, that´s what I meant. So it should be easy to test the guy without endangering his health. And he is claiming :

Zitronenwasser und Fencheltee

as his only "food" or what we not-enlighted-ones would call food or drinks.

He writes he is living on that since 1998. If that´d be possible it should be possible without losing weight, otherwise, even with only a little weightloss every week he should have died since. So let´s go ahead with the test.......

I´d actually pay some money for watching it, that would be fun.
Eating a large pizza, drink a few pints while ritually chanting

Zum Wohl!

every five minutes with my fellow observers.

 

[Cuddles]

I see the problem with the limited resources. Why not leave the protocol negotiations for the pretest to the smaller Skeptic organisations in the homelands of the applicants? The GWUP (the German skeptic organisation) could easily do that, they are offering tests as well, and this Rico Kolodzey is from Germany. And Mr. Randi is not absolutely consistent on this matter, he offered Helen Greve the test (she didn´t accept), and so he did with Kolodzey.
The claw: defrauding millions? Is she? Maybe a lot of the watchers of Montel (didn´t see it myself, since I´m from Germany) just see it for entertainment reasons. Of course she needs to be attacked, no doubt about that, but only going for the big fish that don´t take the challenge anyway isn´t the solution in my opinion.
Dowsing: yes, much more people believe in that, but it was debunked by Mr. Randi and others quite a time ago and quite often as far as I know. Does it really make sense to test it every 5 years? Maybe.
So, how many bleevers are sufficient so that a test should be offered?
10000? A million?
Those "Breatharians" are dangerous, so every opportunity should be taken to expose them. Quite the same as with homoeopaths and the other sCAMers that actually endanger life and health of persons, so it is well worth the bother.
Sorry if my English is far from perfect, but it is not my first language, and I am trying my best.

No worries with the language. When you ask how many believers are sufficient, the point is not that we need a number, it is simply that Randi says there aren't enough. You might think there are, but in the end it is Randi's challenge. In addition, the challenge is not the JREF, it is just one of the PR tools it uses. In the end it doesn't actually matter whether anyone even takes the test, let alone passes it. All that matters is that it helps get the message across. Targeting small cults doesn't really help educate people about critical thinking or frauds, especially when most people have never heard of them.

There is also the issue of what areas people are likely to be convinced in. Anyone who believes they can live off only air clearly has issues with reality. This sort of person is unlikely to be persuaded they are wrong, while most people can see it is ridiculous without needing any more education. If the JREF targetted them they might help 1 or 2 people at the most. On the other hand, millions of people believe dowsing, for example, actually has evidence supporting it. Showing them how that this is not true and exposing the frauds and deluded people for what they are is likely to help a lot of them. There is a lot of woo thinking that is not due to stupidity or fraud, it is simply due to a lack of knowledge about certain subjects. This is where the "E" in "JREF" comes in.

 

[robinson]

Once again, I have to agree with Cuddles. In regards to the MDC and anyone claiming something like not eating, or flying, or becoming invisible, simply doing as Randi suggest, telling your Doctor and demonstrating your "ability" to them, will help the person making the claim.

In fact, anyone considering making a claim will benefit from this simple advice.

 

[Georg]

No worries with the language. When you ask how many believers are sufficient, the point is not that we need a number, it is simply that Randi says there aren't enough. You might think there are, but in the end it is Randi's challenge. In addition, the challenge is not the JREF, it is just one of the PR tools it uses. In the end it doesn't actually matter whether anyone even takes the test, let alone passes it. All that matters is that it helps get the message across. Targeting small cults doesn't really help educate people about critical thinking or frauds, especially when most people have never heard of them.

There is also the issue of what areas people are likely to be convinced in. Anyone who believes they can live off only air clearly has issues with reality. This sort of person is unlikely to be persuaded they are wrong, while most people can see it is ridiculous without needing any more education. If the JREF targetted them they might help 1 or 2 people at the most. On the other hand, millions of people believe dowsing, for example, actually has evidence supporting it. Showing them how that this is not true and exposing the frauds and deluded people for what they are is likely to help a lot of them. There is a lot of woo thinking that is not due to stupidity or fraud, it is simply due to a lack of knowledge about certain subjects. This is where the "E" in "JREF" comes in.

Thanks for the answer. But.......
Randi finally agreed to this challenge. Kolodzey (as Randi wrote in SWIFT) doesn´t agree to a protocol. So it would be great to publish the negotiations just to clearly show it´s not Randi´s fault the test doesn´t take place.
And the pattern for finally avoiding the challenge is the same for "small cults" or the big fish.

Anyone who believes they can live off only air clearly has issues with reality.

Anyone who believes in dowsing rods detecting gold, or believes in homoeopathy (given he/she knows the "principle" behind it ) has issues with reality as well. So what? I thought that´s what the E in JREF stands for. Education. This is not limited to intelligent persons. Especially the stupid ones need education. And mentioning "Breatharianism" along with dowsing, homoeopathy and the lot could give some people the clou that one is as absurd as the others.

 

[Klaymore]

Anyone who believes in dowsing rods detecting gold, or believes in homoeopathy (given he/she knows the "principle" behind it ) has issues with reality as well. So what? I thought that´s what the E in JREF stands for. Education. This is not limited to intelligent persons. Especially the stupid ones need education. And mentioning "Breatharianism" along with dowsing, homoeopathy and the lot could give some people the clou that one is as absurd as the others.

AMEN!

 

[Georg]

AMEN!

Sorry, I´m not religious either.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Sorry, I´m not religious either.

Sakrament, Schorsch! A Bavarian who is not religious? How is that even possible?

 

[GzuzKryzt]

No, no, no! I carefully, patiently, and politely explained the parameters of the challenge to you! Please consult the contest rules, which are stated clearly above. I wish you the best of success!

If you desire further clarification, please feel free to pose any questions you may have... however until the terms of the contest are satisfied, we will be unable to transfer any funds to you.

I WIN THE CHALLENNGE!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU FRUAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW TELL TAHT KLAYMROE CHAP TO GIVE ME MILION DLOLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(If you were female and asian gone brazilian and freshly showered, I'd partake in your challenge with gusto!)

 

[Georg]

Sakrament, Schorsch! A Bavarian who is not religious? How is that even possible?

Psssssst. There are some of us hidden somewhere underground trying hard not to be found, but "They" are after us already......

No, quite easy. Atheist parents, atheist sister, mostly atheist friends.
And yes, I do sometimes feel ashamed that the pope is also Bavarian.
I´d like it better if we were only famous for the good beer and the nice landscape........

 

[robinson]

... and Nürnberg.

 

[Klaymore]

I WIN THE CHALLENNGE!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU FRUAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW TELL TAHT KLAYMROE CHAP TO GIVE ME MILION DLOLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmm... one begins to understand how the good people at JREF may have become worn out over time...

I particulary appreciate your method of simply adding more exclamation points, rather than altering the content. As though that somehow, mystically, amplifies the imperative!(!!!)

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Hmmm... one begins to understand how the good people at JREF may have become worn out over time...

I particulary appreciate your method of simply adding more exclamation points, rather than altering the content. As though that somehow, mystically, amplifies the imperative!(!!!)

You seemed to have gotten my point. But you failed to elaborate on my easter egg.