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Questions on Mormons

Just Me

Thinker
J
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
151
Hi everybody,
I recently joined the JREF forums after many years of reading randi.org. Recently Debunk started a thread that sort of touched on Mormons and their beliefs and some questions re: those beliefs. I was a member for many years so I can answer A LOT about it.
If any of you have questions, step right up and be amazed and the convoluted mess of ideas propogated by the "Only True Church". Yes, that is how they refer to themselves, pompous isn't it?
 
I'm in South Africa and I saw a sign in a window of a local business-park claiming the building as a Mormon Church. Odd place, but I suppose it has walls and a roof. I was a little shocked because I associate Mormons with distant America. What's next, Scientology?

Anyway, welcome the the forum and I will surely read what you have to say.
 
hi Donn, the building probably was a Mormon church. If I recall the church's "Official" numbers have about 14 million members and over 1/2 of them are now outside the USA.
The church loves going to far away places (from the US) to get converts becuase those people probably haven't yet heard all the problems associated w/ the teachings of the early church ie Adam=God, marrying a black (if you are white) will get you struck by God right then and there, 6 ft tall people living on the moon, blacks not getting the priesthood until 1978 etc.
Anywho, re; Scientology. Hey why not in S. Africa. Untapped market! Sigh, so much money, so little time.
Same for mormons though.
 
Have they softened that "marry a black" thing at all? The church is located not two blocks form Zwelihle, the local black township. I really hate using words like 'black' and 'township' but our language down here has not evolved better terms yet.
I get the impression that the major target of these fringe religions are the black and coloured communities. The whites are all sewed-up by Judaism and a few brands of conservative Afrikaaner Christianity.

Perhaps I'm wrong, can't say my praydar is functional at all being an atheist and all :)

Along with the Mormons there are 7th Dayers and Jehova's Witlesses - all taking their pound of cash I'm sure.
 
To add: I live in a rather small 'dorp' (town) about 2 hours away from Cape Town. I have seen Scientologists in Cape Town. We seem to be clear of their poxy influence here, so far...
 
Marrying black

Yes, they have softened that particular view. This belief was put forth by Brigham Young, 2nd "prophet, seer, and revelator" of the church. This was in the mid 1800's. Since then that belief has evolved into the user friendly belief that all may be married and sealed before God. I do not know which prophet relaxed the guidelines, but it was definetly(sp) the right thing to do.
Ironically, Mormons believe that prophets are the mouthpiece of God and must be adhered to always because God is never wrong. So why did the teachings change?
I would have to disagree, SOMEWHAT, on the term "fringe religion" when talking of mormons today. They now go out of their way to be normal, educated, family oriented people.
Is it more or less "fringy" to believe you eat the actual body of Jesus every time the sacrement is taken(Catholics) then to believe God doesn't allow interethnic marriage?
Ritual cannabalism vs. racism.
I would say all religion is involved in the fringes of knowledge/belief.

What is a praydar?
 
Along with beleiving God is never wrong, they also believe God never changes.
If you ever get into a discussion with a mormon ask if they believe this. They will.
THEN say," As man is God once was. As God is man may become."
That is also their belief.
 
6 footers

1st- I must start w/ "The Journal of Discourses". This is a group of books published by the church containing hundreds of talks/speeches by early Mormon leaders such as joseph Smith, brigham Young, maybe Sidney Rigdon, etc.
Young once said, ""Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening called the moon? ...when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the ignorant of their fellows. So it is in regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain," (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 217).

Sounds like astrolgy's belief system at work.

To be fair, mormons claim the journal to be transcribed while the speech was given. So a few things may be inaccurate, although many passages from the journal are still talked about in sacrement meeting every Sunday.

Smith, according to a diary written at the time claimed, "The inhabitants of the moon are more of a uniform size than the inhabitants of the earth, being about 6 feet in height.

"They dress very much like the Quaker style and are quite general in style, or fashion of dress.

"They live to be very old; coming generally, near a thousand years.

I am not yetr allowed to post URLS, so pls google "Joseph Smith Moon Quaker".

Go into the "watchmen" site.
 
I have to go right now, but I will come back to answer more questions in about 3 hours.
Peace, and thanks for making my entry into the forums comfortable. :)
 
Welcome, Just Me.

I have to ask about the underpants thing.

Also, how seriously does the average Mormon take the most outlandish parts of the teaching?

~~ Paul
 
Just Me said:
If any of you have questions, step right up and be amazed and the convoluted mess of ideas propogated by the "Only True Church". Yes, that is how they refer to themselves, pompous isn't it?
Click to expand...

Hey. Explaining the convoluted mess of ideas propogated by the "Only True Church is usually RandFan's or my job. Youtukerchoooooooob.

Seriously though, from one ex-Mormon to another (at least I am presuming you are an ex-Mormon), welcome to the board.
 
garments

They are called garments and they claim they help protect your body. The actual protection they provide is unknown to me (I never went inside the temple and never got my endowments(promises to God))although Brother Hyatt, (owner of Hyatt Hotel), a mormon claimed he was in a boating accident and all his clothes were burned to the level of his garments and that he was not injured.
Also, mormon legend tells us a fighter pilot in WW2 was shot down and he couldn't eject. He lost his legs and arms due to the fire but his body was not burnt at all! :covereyes :eek:
There is no proof of this claim, obviously. I have always wondered about the guys head though because garments do not cover the head.
Interesting sidenote.
I read somewhere on the internet (face value) that Joseph smith and his brother Hyrum were 3rd degree Masons.
One of the most significant symbols of Mason is the compass, the one used to draw circles in geometry. The compass is used in the crest of Masons-pls go to wikipedia and see Freemasonry.
The compass is on the garments over a nipple. The square is also on the garments that I think is over the other nipple.
There is another mark on the right thigh. If I recall it is a straight line.

Also freemasonry was getting a bad name and eventually died out,in the US, especially around New York during Joseph Smith's time (and place of residence) due to a murder in the area.

I have a hypothesus that Mormons are an offshoot of Freemasonry created by Smith.

I am sorry if this does not make too much sense. This is everything I have learned about the garments during about 19 yrs in the church and it is hard to know where to start, although THE BEGINNING is usually a good choice. ;)
 
Nyarlathotep

Hi, nice to meet you.
Technically I haven't been excommunicated so I'm a JACK :D
 
Just Me,

Thank you for comming on to give an insider's view of this often mysterious chruch. One thing's confused me for some time. When a friend of mine convreted to the Mormon faith, he took me along to his Sunday services as a guest several times. Recently, I heard that non-Mormons aren't allowed to enter the chruch. Are there any commonly followed regulations about infidels in the vestibules and heretics in the belfry?
 
entrance to church

ImaginalDisc,

You are confusing "church' with "temple". A church is where you go every Sunday for sacrement and other church meetings. The temple is "The House of God", where certain promises are made with God. Mormons say the temple is holy and sacred, so you must be worthy of entering. Your worthiness is decided by a member of the stake bishopric. The stake bishopric is 3 middle aged guys in suits, who get their rears kissed a lot, who ask you if you believe in the church and are following the teachings, etc.




Paul C. Anagnostopoulos--Sorry I forgot to get to your ? of how seriuosly av. mormons believe the most outlandish teachings.

To head off any "Real Scotsman" garbage I will define "average mormons" as "true believers in the LDS religion".

The answer is. .. .all depends. It depends on what the President of the church is preaching NOW.
The current President (prophet) of the church is Gordon B. Hinckley.
The most recent before him was Ezra Taft Benson.
WHATEVER Benson said during his tenure is scripture.
Now the Hinckley is the mouthpiece of God, whatever HE says is scripture even if it contradicts what Benson said. Hinckley can overrule anything Benson said.
Hinckley is very sick and may die soon. When he dies, his replacement can overrule all other scripture.
Get it now?:confused:

Men on moon, blacks not allowed the priesthood, no interethnic marriage are all older teachings (scripture remember) of the church that have been whitewashed away by more recent prophets of the church.

Average Mormons still believe polygamy will return.
They believe in 3 kingdoms of heaven.
They believe the highest kingdom has 3 levels of glory.
They believe men can enter the highest level of glory unmarried on earth but women can only enter if married.
They believe they will become gods like God. This is called "eternal progression".
They believe they will rule their own little worlds. Of course the women will be pregnant always because, hey, where else are all the souls gonna come from?:boggled:




BTW---Nyarlathotep, sorry if you think I am soiling in your
garments. (bwahaha):D

edited to include "average mormons" in list of beliefs
 
Last edited:
Just Me said:
ImaginalDisc,

You are confusing "church' with "temple". A church is where you go every Sunday for sacrement and other church meetings. The temple is "The House of God", where certain promises are made with God. Mormons say the temple is holy and sacred, so you must be worthy of entering. Your worthiness is decided by a member of the stake bishopric. The stake bishopric is 3 middle aged guys in suits, who get their rears kissed a lot, who ask you if you believe in the church and are following the teachings, etc.
Click to expand...

Oh, that's interesting. Thanks. Is there any obvious difference btween the two? Are the temples the painfully white and spikey buildings?
 
Just Me said:
Smith, according to a diary written at the time claimed, "The inhabitants of the moon are more of a uniform size than the inhabitants of the earth, being about 6 feet in height.

"They dress very much like the Quaker style and are quite general in style, or fashion of dress.

"They live to be very old; coming generally, near a thousand years.
Click to expand...
My, my, that Joe Smith sure knew how to spin a yarn, didn't he? Welcome to the forum Just Me. Have you seen the HBO show "Big Love?" It's about a Mormon offshoot family that practices polygamy.
 
ImaginalDisc,
You can tell if it is a temple because the workers there will have bulges under their jackets in the shape of model 19 Glocks. Jes kiddin.
The churches will have the words "Visitors Welcome" usually on the outside of the building and are located (usually) in (upper middle class) neighborhoods.
The temples can look like a castle, google "san diego temple", or it can look like a fortress, google "mesa temple".
I used to live in Mesa, AZ so I saw this one constantly.
Temples have the words "House of the Lord" over the door.


supercorgi,
Nope. got no HBO. Heard of it though (the show that is). By any chance does it take place in northern arizona, or southern utah? There is an offshoot of LDS up therewho are polygamists.
Recently Terry Goddard (Arizona attn. General) is investigating the matter, after decades of them there.

(redflag)
The offshoot has bought land and built a compound in Texas last year. Close to WACO, TX.
(/redflag)

No, Mormons are not Branch Davidians.
 
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