Questions about pain

The Don

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The Don
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On Monday, I went into hospital to have a squash-ball sized Lipoma removed from my upper arm. Apart from not giving enough local anaestheic, it all want smoothly.

So now I'm back at work with a 6" hole in my arm which is healing nicely thank you very much (apart from the bit of forearm that I can't feel any more becuase I think they forked up a nerver in the process). So well in fact that I sometimes forget, move in a funny way and am "rewarded" with a pain akin to having a white hot poker shoved into my arm (I imagine).

Anyway back to my questions:

- It's 2 hours since my last significant pain but I'm still shaking, am I in some kind of shock ?
- I'm feeling exhaused, is being in pain debilitating ?
- I'm taking Ibuprofen for the pain (I'm sure women would call it discomfort), even though I'm not feeling the pain, could it still be debilitating ?
- Would anyone like to see my scar ?
 
- It's 2 hours since my last significant pain but I'm still shaking, am I in some kind of shock?

Possible. Do you feel shaken? It's not the sort of shock likely to kill you but intense pain can have a very alarming effect.

- I'm feeling exhaused, is being in pain debilitating ?

Yes very. I've suffered from a chronic spinal problem for years and at it's worst it definately left me feeling very tired.

- I'm taking Ibuprofen for the pain (I'm sure women would call it discomfort), even though I'm not feeling the pain, could it still be debilitating ?

If you are not feeling the pain then it seems unlikely that it will debilitate you. You won't produce the same natural pain killers that zone you out.

Maybe you are in some physical shock. Just having surgery can make you feel weak for some time even if no pain is involved.

- Would anyone like to see my scar

Yes.

This is all from my own personal experience. I'm not a doctor. Or a reflexologist for that matter.
 
The Don said:
On Monday, I went into hospital to have a squash-ball sized Lipoma removed from my upper arm. Apart from not giving enough local anaestheic, it all want smoothly.

So now I'm back at work with a 6" hole in my arm which is healing nicely thank you very much (apart from the bit of forearm that I can't feel any more becuase I think they forked up a nerver in the process). So well in fact that I sometimes forget, move in a funny way and am "rewarded" with a pain akin to having a white hot poker shoved into my arm (I imagine).

Anyway back to my questions:

- It's 2 hours since my last significant pain but I'm still shaking, am I in some kind of shock ?
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Yep - don't forget pain can even make you pass out, if bad enough, pain is after all a "shock" to the system so I wouldn't be surprised that bad pain causes similar physiological changes as other causes of shock do.

- I'm feeling exhaused, is being in pain debilitating ?
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It can be incredibly debilitating and utterly exhuasting.

- I'm taking Ibuprofen for the pain (I'm sure women would call it discomfort), even though I'm not feeling the pain, could it still be debilitating ?
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Depends on the pain and what the ibuprofen is managing to do to help control it. Many analgesic and anti-inflammatory drugs themselves can also cause you to feel knackered - not too sure if Ibuprofen is one of them.
- Would anyone like to see my scar ?
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No thanks.
 
Post traumatic shock. They come in all sizes, from near-coma, to being shaken up. You body is detecting that something nasty has happened to it, and it wants you to keep a low profile, to leave off the mammoth-hunting, mate chasing, pecking-order fights, etc., till your wound has healed. Feeling shaken and tired is your body's way of signalling that you should try to stay out of harm's way, till you are back in fighting form.

Disclaimer: The above is probably unscientific, but it feels right ;).

Hans
 
If you show me your scar I'll show you mine and I bet you won't like to see mine I have still have the staples in. Add to that nice yellow bruising, Its a gross out.

I would guess you are still in recovery mode. Very possible in shock from the op itself. No anaesthesia at all? I'm glad I had plenty, I suspect I had a double dose for I felt very ill afterwards and I recover quickly from operations, but not this one.

Also nerves take time to recover, I can't feel a lot near my scar currently. Anything pressing on them, causing them to fire for more than 3 weeks continuously will burn them out.

Just take your time. I was given some pain pills but they drugged me right out and I felt very ill. Soon after I stopped them I felt better. I take just normal pain killers, if I really have to. Moving is a problem with me as well and I share your white hot poker and add 4 more to that. Just remember internally and externally you have to heal and take it slow.

I get exhausted just taking a shower, any operation takes it out of you. If muscles are involved they are weak and will shake to say you have done to much.


If the operation was on your arm or leg, keep it elevated. This will help relieve the pain and swelling, and will reduce the amount of blood flowing toward the wound.
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This may help you to understand. http://www.emedicine.com/aaem/topic503.htm
 
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Somewhere like the Rose and Crown.......excellent !
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Just don't mix alcohol with ibuprofen. Hope the arm heals up OK, remember to include science in your prayers:D .

Tylenol #1's are available OTC, and that little bit o' codeine can work wonders.
 
Why not mix ibuprofen and alcohol? I know tt can cause increased stomach bleeding in those so disposed but for most people it's not a problem in the short term. Or did you have another effect in mind that is worth avoiding?

Re: codeine. The amount of codeine in most OTC remedies doesn't really work AFAIK, certainly not the amount in UK ones anyway.
 
As an enthusiastic drinker and Ibuprofen taker, I've not noticed any unwelcome side effects. As a matter of course, whenever I'm skiing I take some for their painkilling and anti-inflamatory properties washed down with the typical combination of Beer/Wine/Schnapps/Obstler/Chartreuse/Gin which is an integral part of any skiing vacation
 
The Don said:
- It's 2 hours since my last significant pain but I'm still shaking, am I in some kind of shock ?
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No. Physiological shock is an inability to match oxygen delivery to oxygen demand at a cellular level. Pain does not cause this.

You are shaking because the physiological response to pain stimulates the sympathetic nervous system and the vagus nerve. As a result you are activating something akin to the "fight or flight" response but without the effects we normally associate with fear.

Think back to a time you were really scared or narrowly escaped (potential) death or serious injury. Chances are you shook for some time after that as well.

The Don said:
I'm feeling exhaused, is being in pain debilitating ?
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Yes, in the acute phase primarly because you a using up your bodies non-fat energy stores when your symapthetic nervous system is stimulated. If the pain becomes chronic it is likely that debilitiation will occur for other reasons.

It is likely that a great deal of your tiredness is from the stress of the procedure and from your body healing itself and diverting energy away from the brain.

The Don said:
I'm taking Ibuprofen for the pain (I'm sure women would call it discomfort), even though I'm not feeling the pain, could it still be debilitating ?
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If you are not aware of pain then it is unlikely that any occult stimulation making you feel worse is going on.
If you are concerned about taking ibuprofen it should not be a problem if you only use it for a short period. Long term use can cause gastric bleeding. There is no significant interaction between alcohol and ibuprofen.

BTW all the clinical studies that I am aware of show that men have higher pain thresholds than women.

The Don said:
Would anyone like to see my scar ?
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No thank you.
 
The Don said:
As an enthusiastic drinker and Ibuprofen taker, I've not noticed any unwelcome side effects. As a matter of course, whenever I'm skiing I take some for their painkilling and anti-inflamatory properties washed down with the typical combination of Beer/Wine/Schnapps/Obstler/Chartreuse/Gin which is an integral part of any skiing vacation
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Ibuprofen (along with all the other NSAIDs) are notoriously hard on the GI tract. Consuming alcohol greatly increases the incidence & severity of these effects. It's suggested that one not self-medicate with Ibuprofen if you're having more than 3 drinks/day.

It can be anything from minor GI upset to a life-threatening GI bleed. Severity tends to increase with dose & it tends to be more severe in the elderly.

Ibu's also hard on the liver as is alcohol...............
 
Some people can get away with taking NSAIDS daily with no problems. Others, like me, can't take them at all without suffering bleeding.

I used to be able to but after years of taking them for chronic back problems they have ruined my stomach. Now even 200mg of ibrofen with food will leave me in terrible stomach pain for days. It's also ruined my enjoyment of spirits.

My father tried taking 1/2 an asprin a day without asking his doctor. After a few months, he bled so much he fainted and smashed his face up. Had ha asked his doc he would have been told to take the enteric coated ones I suspect.

I also believe they gave me tinnitus. Nasty things.
 
Can pain be debilitating?


Better believe it mister. I can speak from authority of experience on this.

Get some rest, and I hope you heal quickly.
 
Ralph said:
Ibuprofen (along with all the other NSAIDs) are notoriously hard on the GI tract. Consuming alcohol greatly increases the incidence & severity of these effects. It's suggested that one not self-medicate with Ibuprofen if you're having more than 3 drinks/day.
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Yes, but life basically sucks, and what are you going to do? Taking Tylenol with alcohol is even more dangerous, and basically, Tylenol, NSAIDS, and alcohol are pretty much all you can get for pain relief. In England you can get OTC pills with damn near homeopathic amounts of codeine in them, and slightly better in Canada.
 
epepke said:
In England you can get OTC pills with damn near homeopathic amounts of codeine in them, and slightly better in Canada.
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Codeine, nasty stuff, makes me spew (aka projectile vomiting). To be avoided at all costs. Demoral on the other hand is nice and relaxing. But seriously, chronic pain is horrible. I have back problems that aren't responding to much. Just to show that evolution doesn't always work in the most efficient way. Damn back!
 
Just a note that pain and reactions to pain killers is highly individualized!

Hah... take that you silly homeopaths!

I can tolerate codeine when it is in the form of Tylenol 3 (or whatever they call the tylenol with codeine). But when it comes to Demoral, Oxycoton, Percodan or Vicadin... yuck.. that is when my stomach turns and I spew all over! (as it turns out, I am one out of TEN people who have problems tolerating narcotics... it has been studies, and noted!).

I fortunately only get occasional back pain... I am also not prone to head aches. Also, I get bruises and cuts that I never feel and cannot remember where they came from. I am very annoying --- and even more intolerable when I am in pain.

The Don... you have my deepest hope for your rapid recovery. Once upon a time I played Dungeons and Dragons. In that there were points for healing after fights that seemed ridiculously out of touch with reality. Many of those who played (like my dear hubby) had never had to heal after a serious injury. Since I have had more than a few broken bones (did I tell you all that I am clumsy... okay, to be truthfull the first was due to a head-on vehicular accident caused by dear hubby!)... I know that it takes time and ENERGY to heal --- the shaking is unfortunately normal. Sleep does work wonders.

Now in the oddness that is the new forum software that JREF is running, in the list of "Similar Threads" is my lament on effect of pain medication on me: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32756
 
Pain is freakin' exhausting. I had a tooth go bad on me, and one day woke up feeling like a mule was kicking me in the jaw. As pain goes, it was the worst I've ever felt (which isn't saying much, I've lived a pretty lucky life on the agony front, and I'm a dreadful wuss) and I recall being astounded at how exhausting being in even that pain was. I did nothing but sit quietly and read, and I felt like I'd run a freakin' marathon. I can't imagine what serious surgical pain'd do to you.

And I cried a bit. Not because it hurt, but from pure emotional exhaustion. This is not something I do regularly, so it was rather astonishing to me to suddenly tear up out of pure frustration that it wouldn't STOP.

So yeah, don't be surprised you're exhausted--pain is WORK!
 
I'm surprised no one mentioned adrenaline. (sp?) Doesn't your body flood with this stuff and it takes a while to wash out? I had the shakes several hours after an accident and that was one of the things the ER doctor told me.
 
MRC_Hans said:
Post traumatic shock. They come in all sizes, from near-coma, to being shaken up. You body is detecting that something nasty has happened to it, and it wants you to keep a low profile, to leave off the mammoth-hunting, mate chasing, pecking-order fights, etc., till your wound has healed. Feeling shaken and tired is your body's way of signalling that you should try to stay out of harm's way, till you are back in fighting form.

Disclaimer: The above is probably unscientific, but it feels right ;).

Hans
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What I don't get is how passing out from the pain fits into this. "Obviously, you're in trouble, so how about you lose consciousness and hope the danger goes away." I mean, if you've just had your arm bitten off by a saber tooth tiger, isn't fainting going to be detrimental to your chances of survival?
 
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