Questions about Hyperinsulinemia/Diabetes

[Goshawk]

Homeostatis: When the body is working as it should because all of its systems are in balance/harmony.

"Homeostasis is a complex process. It involves continuous monitoring of the internal and external environment and directing the various organ systems to make appropriate changes. This is accomplished by feedback loops in which a change in one environmental factor causes the body to make changes which maintain its internal environment."

Nature's balance: When the nature is working as it should because all of its systems, beings & things are in balance/harmony to each other.

Kumar's going back on the Ignore list. He's not teachable; he's just here to waste our time.

http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/dc/caz/diab/dia1/h_dic.jsp

Homeostatis

When the body is working as it should because all of its systems are in balance.

http://www.seps.org/oracle/oracle.archive/Life_Science.Health/2001.01/000979054123.29322

Homeostasis is a complex process. It involves continuous monitoring of the internal and external environment and directing the various organ systems to make appropriate changes. This is accomplished by feedback loops in which a change in one environmental factor causes the body to make changes which maintain its internal environment.

I fold. Too rich for my blood.

 

[Roadtoad]

Goshawk, why do you think I quit posting in this thread?

Kumar is a (RULE 8: NOT SAFE FOR WORK!!!)

 

[Kumar]

Kumar's going back on the Ignore list. He's not teachable; he's just here to waste our time. I fold. Too rich for my blood.[/

Sorry, but all look just opposite to me. Anyway, in consideration of individuality, all can be different in their thoughts.

 

[MRC_Hans]

An excellent example of Kumar's selective perception:

Physiotherapist writes:

The best way to control blood sugar is with diet, unless of course you are an IDDM, in which case you need insulin.

AND Kumar replies:

Thanks. Do you want to say no need of insulin or oral medicins, if we can control diet bu using coplex carbs(I think according to glycemic index), even during later stages if NIDDM?

Now, I have seen this so often that it cannot be written off as a language problem. Kumar DELIBERATELY twists and misinterprets the answers he gets from people, and also the information he digs up by googling. Kumar is a liar and a swindler, and his apparant difficulties with English are mainly a front.

If you choose to answer Kumar, expect your answers to be twisted and misinterpreted. Expect him to pick out words and sentences and present them later as if you supported his views or as if you are contradicting yourself or others. He has done this with me often enough. Even referring to things I said over a year ago in a different context, but twisting it so it became a part of his argumentation.

Kumar is a profoundly dishonest debater who will stop at nothing to get his message through.

Hans

Oh, and:

Mill Hill East

Hans

 

[Kumar]

An excellent example of Kumar's selective perception:

Physiotherapist writes:


AND Kumar replies:


Now, I have seen this so often that it cannot be written off as a language problem. Kumar DELIBERATELY twists and misinterprets the answers he gets from people, and also the information he digs up by googling. Kumar is a liar and a swindler, and his apparant difficulties with English are mainly a front.

If you choose to answer Kumar, expect your answers to be twisted and misinterpreted. Expect him to pick out words and sentences and present them later as if you supported his views or as if you are contradicting yourself or others. He has done this with me often enough. Even referring to things I said over a year ago in a different context, but twisting it so it became a part of his argumentation.

Kumar is a profoundly dishonest debater who will stop at nothing to get his message through.

Hans

Hans

No. Are you talking about placebo/other systems vs. modern system's effects ratios. Is it an egoistic/emotional problem or problem in reality. If I ask you placebo ratio in all healings & if you say something like 70%+ & if I say quite impressive--so accet this effect, then what is the problem to you? Let the knowledges progress, inspite it may or may not harm you sentimently/egoistically. Furthur pls don't be so "absolute" in using the words, which can be against your theory.

 

[MRC_Hans]

No. Are you talking about placebo/other systems vs. modern system's effects ratios. Is it an egoistic/emotional problem or problem in reality. If I ask you placebo ratio in all healings & if you say something like 70%+ & if I say quite impressive--so accet this effect, then what is the problem to you? Let the knowledges progress, inspite it may or may not harm you sentimently/egoistically. Furthur pls don't be so "absolute" in using the words, which can be against your theory.

Because that was not what you asked, and that was not what I answered. I am glad you admit you recognize a recent episode. This tells me that I am right and you are doing this deliberately. I also notice that you do not hesitate to repeat your misinterpretation.

There is no knowledge from twisting and misinterpreting, and you know it. You are not interested in knowledge, all you want is to promote your own beliefs.

Hans

 

[Physiotherapist]

Thanks Hans.

Kumar,

To try and answer your question. Obviously, an IDDM will need insulin and that is the end of it. However, they do still need to eat a sensible diet so that their blood sugar is kept as stable as possible and so that they avoid hypos. It is when blood glucose is unstable that other problems start to occur, which are the complications that occur as a result of diabetes.

Now, NIDDM is a different matter and generally, management would revolve around how much insulin the pancreas is producing and how receptive the cells are to what is being produced. It would be nice to think that NIDDM's could be controlled by diet alone, but a lot of people who contract NIDDM are in later life, possibly overweight, can take little exercise and eat all the incorrect foods which are high in sugar. This is not always the case, but can be true for a certain amount without wishing to generalise.

It is hard trying to re-educate people about diet and exercise, but in some cases it is possible and therefore a lot of people with NIDDM can be controlled adequately with diet. In the short term, some people may require insulin, until their blood glucose stabilises. Their doses can then be decreased and they can gradually come off it and then either be controlled with medication and diet or diet alone. Some people may need medication which will help stimulate the cells to be able to utilise the glucose more effectively. Drugs such as Metformin may commonly be prescribed.

So the answer to your question really is, in an ideal world then yes, it would be nice to think that all NIDDM's could be diet controlled, but we do not happen to live in that ideal world so it is not possible. Also, every case needs to be looked at individually as everyone is different and will have a different presentation, so accordingly will need to be managed differently.

I am not sure what you are asking about when you mention itching? Itching can be caused by many things starting from someone who has dry skin to someone with end stage renal failure and everything in between.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Also, type 2 diabetes cannot be totally diet controlled because of the insulin resistance. A type 2 diabetic can probably get his/her BG down to normal by proper diet, but because of the insulin reistance, this will mean that too little glucose is metabolized, which will probably cause a number of symptoms (tiredness and weight loss come to mind). Insulin resistance can be partly reverted, but because type 2 diabetes has so few initial symptoms, it is rarely diagnosed on a sufficiently early state to obtain full reversal, even if the patient complies fully with lifestyle recommendations.

However, as you mention, compliance is a big problem, as we also see with our friend Kumar. There is practically no limit to the lenghts some people are going to go to convince themselves that they can avoid following doctor's orders.

Note that I use the term type 2 diabetes for a reason: Kumar has trouble enough distinguishing between type 1 and type 2 (in fact, I suspect he cannot), so merely focussing on insulin dependence is not clear enough. There is a lot of difference between a type 1 patient and an insulin dependent type 2 patient.

Oh, and itching: Many diabetes patients suffer from various kinds of itching complications. The increased urinary clucose gives rise to urinary tract infections (there is simply a better growth medium for the bacteria), and many suffer from dry skin for different reasons.

But it all boils down to one thing: Get your BG under control.

Hans

 

[Kumar]

Thanks Hans.

Kumar,

To try and answer your question..

I am not sure what you are asking about when you mention itching? Itching can be caused by many things starting from someone who has dry skin to someone with end stage renal failure and everything in between.

Yes, that is true thanks. Doet as per GI index, can be a good exercise as patient can still eat something. It may keep hime satisfied, whereas slow release of glucose can be helpful.

Does it not indicate that immediate higher load of glucose on pancreas can be important to understand? How then glucose is better metabolized with lesser need of insulin?

Furthur, do you know how insulin reaches to the target cells in muscles as it is not indicated in regular physiology book?

Reg; itching, it is bit off topic question as I mentined. I was willing to understand that why we get itching sensations even without any big disorder & can itiching any part of our body have some physiologically or psychologically beneficial effects?
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003217.htm

 

[MRC_Hans]

Kumar starts back at square one with a new victim. "How is insulin distributed?" indeed!

I think it is soon kitty time.

Hans

 

[Rolfe]

Insulin resistance can be partly reverted, but because type 2 diabetes has so few initial symptoms, it is rarely diagnosed on a sufficiently early state to obtain full reversal, even if the patient complies fully with lifestyle recommendations.

As Hans mentioned kitty time, I thought that I'd post a clarification on this comment. Reversal is frequently achieved if the patient happens to be a cat (some authors report 80% remission rates with the correct diet).

Physiotherapist, if you'd like to know what Kumar is getting at by his questions on "itch", try Googling the word "psora".

Rolfe.

 

[Physiotherapist]

Hi Rolfe,

Aha! I understand what you mean now - he is on about homeopathy again isn't he? Thankfully, I do not know that much about it, but have found out enough to discover that Psora = The Itch!!

Kumar,

Everywhere in the body has cells, so glucose is utilised in exactly the same way, with insulin allowing this utilisation. Muscle cells are no different in this respect. However, as muscle is highly metabolically active, it contains lots and lots of mitochondria to provide lots of ATP, which is basically the fuel that you need to live. Glucose is stored in the liver as glycogen. Glycogen is not water soluble so it is ideal for storage. If energy is needed, then this glycogen is broken down by the liver to glucose, which is water soluble so that it can be utilised by the cells.

If you eat simple carbohydrates, which get broken down more quickly, then you will get a sudden rush of insulin release which will rise quickly and then dip, which is why after eating chocolate you feel really good and then dip quickly afterwards. This is because your blood glucose level has fallen again. If you eat more complex carbohydrates such as potatoes and porridge, then you will get a more sustained insulin release over a longer period of time which then keeps your blood glucose level more stable. The more stable your blood sugar, then the less likely it is that you will desire these sweet things.

I suppose there might be a psychological element in a good scratch. Think about if you have an annnoying itch on your back that is very hard to get to and you ask someone to give it a good scratch for you. This is very satisfying afterwards and feels really good. Perhaps it releases endorphins, but who knows?

 

[flume]

Kumar starts back at square one with a new victim. "How is insulin distributed?" indeed!

Well, I have to give Kumar credit: he is actually reading a physiology book. I wonder which one, and whether it is online (some are). This has been suggested to him many times, and now he is doing it! This is good news.
Kumar, as you have observed, there is no way a general textbook can contain all the details on every subject it covers. There can be whole books written on any topic in a textbook. The authors have to make general statements and leave out detail where it is less important. They don't do this because they don't know the material (assuming it is a recent textbook and well-informed writer) - they do this because there is no room to put it in. So if you have a question, you need to look farther (like in specialized textbooks or pubmed etc.). And maybe you are trying to do that.

But don't assume that you are thinking of questions that somehow were missed by the writers of the book, the medical doctors, the research scientists who discovered the insulin transporters and measured the uptake into kidney tubules etc. This is what I think you do all the time. You get one little bit of info and another little bit of info, and you think no one else in the history of science and medicine has thought that they might be connected. Not so.
But good news that you are reading a textbook.

 

[Roadtoad]

Okay, enough.

Kumar, people far more knowledgeable than either of us have taken their limited time and tried like hell to answer your questions. They have reviewed, reflected, educated, studied, exchanged, and tried to get through that thick skull of yours. You have not only ignored damned near everything they've said, you're twisted their words into unintelligible tripe.

Bottom line: You are a g**damned idiot. You seem hell bent on dying from this disease. The least you could do is try and do it quietly without bothering anyone else. But, no, you're on some wierd jag and determined to demonstrate that you are willing to ignore the sound advice of medical professionals, because, hell, you're smarter than they are!

Do me a favor: When you finally die, (and you'll probably do it sooner than me), have someone drop us a line. I'd like to post it on the bulletin board in my home office so I have irrefutable evidence that stupidity is fatal. I'm trying to get my BG under control, and trying to get what sound advice is out there, and I have to wade through this psuedoscientific sh** that you keep pounding out on your keyboard.

If you're that determined to die, to go blind, to face amputation, to ruin what is left of your life, go do it quietly somewhere else. Go f*** yourself, you damned half-wit. Some of us would rather live a better life. Jackass.

And while I'm here:

Covent Garden!

And a huff!

There, I said it!

 

[Ducky]

Okay, enough.

Kumar, people far more knowledgeable than either of us have taken their limited time and tried like hell to answer your questions. They have reviewed, reflected, educated, studied, exchanged, and tried to get through that thick skull of yours. You have not only ignored damned near everything they've said, you're twisted their words into unintelligible tripe.

Bottom line: You are a g**damned idiot. You seem hell bent on dying from this disease. The least you could do is try and do it quietly without bothering anyone else. But, no, you're on some wierd jag and determined to demonstrate that you are willing to ignore the sound advice of medical professionals, because, hell, you're smarter than they are!

Do me a favor: When you finally die, (and you'll probably do it sooner than me), have someone drop us a line. I'd like to post it on the bulletin board in my home office so I have irrefutable evidence that stupidity is fatal. I'm trying to get my BG under control, and trying to get what sound advice is out there, and I have to wade through this psuedoscientific sh** that you keep pounding out on your keyboard.

If you're that determined to die, to go blind, to face amputation, to ruin what is left of your life, go do it quietly somewhere else. Go f*** yourself, you damned half-wit. Some of us would rather live a better life. Jackass.

And while I'm here:

Covent Garden!

And a huff!

There, I said it!

WHoa.


I think I love you, man.

 

[Kumar]

As Hans mentioned kitty time, I thought that I'd post a clarification on this comment. Reversal is frequently achieved if the patient happens to be a cat (some authors report 80% remission rates with the correct diet).

Physiotherapist, if you'd like to know what Kumar is getting at by his questions on "itch", try Googling the word "psora".

Rolfe.

Rolfe, you have brain-HansTM, better apply it, not just go along with as a common wo/man alike me. Itching, scratching are words in modern medical dict.

Physiotherapist,

Whether effects or physiological effects of itching/sratching are indicated in physiotherapy alike might have indicated for massage, rubbing, ccupunture, accupressure etc.?

Reg; insulin, in physiology(I started reading my daughter's books. I don't know how much more I may find ), it is indicated that cap.permeability for insulin is 0.2. Whether it is applicable to all capillaries or not? Can it be increased or decreased as per requirements or in case of any disorder?

Furthur, it is also indicated that our cells have other mechanisms of glucose absorption by muscle cells which are Non insulin dependant but slower than insulin dependent. It is also mentioned that insulin secretion is greately enhanced above normal range say 80mg/dl. Does it all indicate that foods with low GI index/complex foods may be asorbed by cells with this non-insulin mechanism or with least insulin requirements?

 

[Kumar]

Okay, enough.

Kumar, people far more knowledgeable than either of us have taken their limited time and tried like hell to answer your questions. They have reviewed, reflected, educated, studied, exchanged, and tried to get through that thick skull of yours. You have not only ignored damned near everything they've said, you're twisted their words into unintelligible tripe.

Bottom line: You are a g**damned idiot. You seem hell bent on dying from this disease. The least you could do is try and do it quietly without bothering anyone else. But, no, you're on some wierd jag and determined to demonstrate that you are willing to ignore the sound advice of medical professionals, because, hell, you're smarter than they are!

Do me a favor: When you finally die, (and you'll probably do it sooner than me), have someone drop us a line. I'd like to post it on the bulletin board in my home office so I have irrefutable evidence that stupidity is fatal. I'm trying to get my BG under control, and trying to get what sound advice is out there, and I have to wade through this psuedoscientific sh** that you keep pounding out on your keyboard.

If you're that determined to die, to go blind, to face amputation, to ruin what is left of your life, go do it quietly somewhere else. Go f*** yourself, you damned half-wit. Some of us would rather live a better life. Jackass.

And while I'm here:

Covent Garden!

And a huff!

There, I said it!

Yes there you said all that as a common/average man can said. In all, can you cliam absolutely with surety, that everything is "absolute"--free from imperfection in science and one shouldn't be bit vigilant/careful in view of strong chemicals & excesses o theories & substances--may be beyong the capacity of single brain to incorporate & apply all at one time within just 15minitute to one hour.

Why so much medical informations are made available on internet, books, leaflets, with every medicine etc. for common man? Is it for them, just to entertain or to use for some benefits or to avoid any "blaim or claim"n telling on problem that you was fully/well informed in advance abot everything including possible adversities?

What for, just clear it truely?

Every individal or group of some individual is different in healing sense, all more than 100M can't be understood/incorporated in medical understandings unless GODLIKE brain is there? So it may be the duty/requirement of every individual esp. those wich can, to keep himself well informed and also to look dynamically. Blind trust may cost to those who do, not to me as I understand some of both C+P. But still however, I do feel, I may be punished for pursuing "unentitled system/s" in current age by God/Nature i.e. for thinking & trying for good, which you can calculate as stupidity in just your language. of HERE maynot be of THERE. Best.

Edited to add & correct.

 

[Roadtoad]

Yes there you said all that as a common/average man can said. In all, can you cliam absolutely with surety, that everything is "absolute"--free from imperfection in science and one shouldn't be bit vigilant/careful in view of strong chemicals & excesses o theories & substances--may be beyong the capacity of single brain to incorporate & apply all at one time within just 15minitute to one hour.

Why so much medical informations are made available on internet, books, leaflets, with every medicine?

Every individal or group of some individual is different in healing sense, all more than 100M can't be understood/incorporated in medical understandings unless GODLIKE brain is there? So it may be the duty/requirement of every individual esp. those wich can, to keep himself well informed and also to look dynamically. Blind trust may cost to those who do, not to me as I understand some of both C+P. But still however, I do feel, I may be punished for pursuing "unentitled system/s" in current age by God/Nature i.e. for thinking & trying for good, which you can calculate as stupidity in just your language. of HERE maynot be of THERE. Best.

I never thought I'd say this, but I miss Franko.

 

[Kumar]

Well, I have to give Kumar credit: he is actually reading a physiology book. I wonder which one, and whether it is online (some are). This has been suggested to him many times, and now he is doing it! This is good news.
Kumar, as you have observed, there is no way a general textbook can contain all the details on every subject it covers. There can be whole books written on any topic in a textbook. The authors have to make general statements and leave out detail where it is less important. They don't do this because they don't know the material (assuming it is a recent textbook and well-informed writer) - they do this because there is no room to put it in. So if you have a question, you need to look farther (like in specialized textbooks or pubmed etc.). And maybe you are trying to do that.

But don't assume that you are thinking of questions that somehow were missed by the writers of the book, the medical doctors, the research scientists who discovered the insulin transporters and measured the uptake into kidney tubules etc. This is what I think you do all the time. You get one little bit of info and another little bit of info, and you think no one else in the history of science and medicine has thought that they might be connected. Not so.
But good news that you are reading a textbook.

flume, I thinkD), you are discouraging me to read the text books also? Btw, if, nothing is there on which we can depend somewhat absolutely?

 

[Ducky]

flume, I thinkD), you are discouraging me to read the text books also? Btw, if, nothing is there on which we can depend somewhat absolutely?

We can absolutely depend on you to troll, post crap links, and not to read/digest/care about a single thing posted by very intelligent and learned people who give you an inordinate amount of patience.