Questions about Hyperinsulinemia/Diabetes

Kumar said:
Most of Type1 may be a later stage of type2/IR. Someone told me that natural & synthetic insulin is same, why then excess of synhetic insulin to type1/IDDM causes IR in him?
In other words, Kumar fails to grasp even the basics of diabetes and the difference between the two types.

No, Kumar type 1 is not a later stage of type 2. Type 2 patients often progress to insulin dependent type 2, but that is NOT the same as type 1.

Excess insulin of any kind does not acuse IR in a type 1 diabetic. Excess insulin does not cause IR in anybody, it causes hypo.

The reason for continuing this "discussion" with Kumar must be the same thing that comepells people to play "wack a mole".

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
The reason for continuing this "discussion" with Kumar must be the same thing that comepells people to play "wack a mole".

Hans
You're the first one who replied to this thread :p
I saw what was coming from the first post, and have stayed away, except for a few pokes and prods.
 
Rolfe said:
In Kumar's second post on the JREF forum, a thread he started himself, and touching on what appeared to be his main motivation for coming here to debate, he postulated that excess injected insulin could exacerbate diabetes, and reducing insulin dosage (or discontinuing it) would cure the patient. This was close to two years ago. He was told then that insulin does not cause insulin resistance, and people have been telling him the same thing on almost a daily basis ever since.

I've seens a number of cases of wilful refusal to learn, but this really caps the lot.
I see his BS levels still haven't come down, then.
 
Donks said:
You mention god because it's a completely unscientific explanation? Good to know. Now every time you ask for a scientific explanation, I can justly tell you to piss off.

No, concept GOD is not unscientific in my sense. But IT is the first/basis of all science in my sense. This understanding may only be a prime/basic miss or weakness.
.
Ok, it's 2005. Please present your evidence that the price of human insulin is now "negligible" as opposed to twice as much 3 years ago.

10 ml vial actrapid animal source; equal to appx US $3. Human sy. source; equal to appx US$4. One 10ml vial may be sufficient for one month on average. So just US$0.033 per day. Is ir negligible or not?


Are you accusing health care profesionals of avoiding your grandious ideas because they are addicted to money, patient health be dammed?

Not for sure & can't expect such inhimanity as yet, but can't commercialization/addiction/need/greed/competition result into it?
 
Donks said:
You're the first one who replied to this thread :p
I saw what was coming from the first post, and have stayed away, except for a few pokes and prods.
"People" includes me. However, this particular game is getting boring. I notice Kumar is running out of new wacky ideas, and just reiterates the old ones. He is also flaming out much faster on each subject. I suppose some kind of battle fatigue is setting in. When first I saw it, I hoped it might be a bit of sensibility finally rubbing through, but the latest events have effectively demonstrated it is not.

And don't play holy; just bacause you have managed to hold back in this particular thread does not mean you may not later succumb to the Kumarbug[tm].

Hans
 
Kumar said:
No, concept GOD is not unscientific in my sense. But IT is the first/basis of all science in my sense. This understanding may only be a prime/basic miss or weakness.
Yes, it's one of your basic misses and weaknesses.
10 ml vial actrapid animal source; equal to appx US $3. Human sy. source; equal to appx US$4. One 10ml vial may be sufficient for one month on average. So just US$0.033 per day. Is ir negligible or not?
a) I said evidence, not an anecdote. At least reference the website of a pharmacy in India, or something.
b) That's a 33% increase in price. It's not negligible if you're living hand to mouth in a poor country.
Not for sure & can't expect such inhimanity as yet, but can't commercialization/addiction/need/greed/competition result into it?
As yet? So you're leaving all the options open.
I won't answer your question, as I'd only end up breaking the civility rule.
 
Kumar said:
Most of Type1 may be a later stage of type2/IR. Someone told me that natural & synthetic insulin is same, why then excess of synhetic insulin to type1/IDDM causes IR in him?
You have been repeatedly told that type 1 and type 2 diabetes are diffrerent conditions, with different causes. You have been repeatedly told that insulin resistance is not caused by hyperinsulinaemia; it's the other way round. You have even posted an abstract indicating this yourself! Why can't you grasp these simple facts?

Try to get it straight: Both type 1 and type 2 diabetics have elevated blood sugar levels. In type 1 diabetes is this is caused by the pancreas not producing enough insulin; in type 2 it is caused by the body's cells not responding properly to insulin. The end result is similar, but the causes are different.
 
MRC_Hans said:
And don't play holy; just bacause you have managed to hold back in this particular thread does not mean you may not later succumb to the Kumarbug[tm].

Hans
I'm not playing holy, it's more of an "I told you so" in the one thread I've managed to stay away :D
 
Kumar said:
Although I am very flexible to change & correct, What made you to think alike that?
Kumar, you are almost certainly the least able to "change and correct" of anyone I have encountered, ever.

Edited to remove a superfluous "ever."
 
MRC_Hans said:
I notice Kumar is running out of new wacky ideas, and just reiterates the old ones.
Frankly, I think he only started this thread because he wasn't getting the answers he wanted in the "Can Autoimmunity be a Positive Immune Mechanism" thread. He seems to think that if we can't scroll up and see our previous responses, we might give him different answers. :rolleyes:
 
Kumar said:
*snip*
10 ml vial actrapid animal source; equal to appx US $3. Human sy. source; equal to appx US$4. One 10ml vial may be sufficient for one month on average. So just US$0.033 per day. Is ir negligible or not?

*snip*

BZZZZT!! WRONG. Actrapid is a trademark of Novo Nordisk, and it is not animal insulin. - And it is produced in Denmark. Link here. Get your facts straight.

Also, I explained to you earlier that the difference may not reflect in retail prize. The important thing, from an economical POV, is that animal insulin can be produced locally.

Anyway, what are you arguing for? Do you doubt that animal insulin is being replaced by synthetic, and that animal inulin is still used in some places?

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
I may be confusing to you. The rest of us have no problems with it.

Ok, how obesity/central obesity is a prime cause of getting IR condition? Is it fat deposit/ somewhat fatty degenaration result unto IR condition or otherwise? Is ir all body cells?

No, it is not said so. It is just your binary thinking mode. Genetic predisposition just increases your risk. Oh, and we can't separate insulin resistance from diabetes. Insulin resistance is, basically, diabetes (type 2).

There can be many variation in type2. All type2 may be IR--insulin deficient, IDDM, weight loosers, non-obese etc.

I suspect genetic predisposed condition causes a person to eat more & irregularly--may be due to more & occasional insulin/gastric acid secretions resulted from this predisposed inharent effect or aquired/added due to modern lifestyle/environment. This may make a person obese(not centrally at this stage). The fat storage capacity due to it is exhaused & body may then stop
metabolising glucose, glucose conversion into fats and storing more fats.


Total raving nonsense.
Total nonsense.
The meaning is that you are wrong. W. R. O. N. G. Your entire "theory" is gibberish, grabbed out of thin air. It is contrary to known facts, it lacks inner logic, and, to top it, it is useless.



HOW??


No.

Loosing 5-10% as water is possible, but will leave you dehydrated.


How them 5-10% weight loss within few days can be possible except fasting?

More
O2/breathing/aerobic excercises may also do this.


Well, yes, if you sweat enough .

Can't it also possible by losing more water in excess urination?


2.Can diabetes/elevated BG levels with IR, be due to some disorder in intestinal absorption of sugar?Can excess intake of salt/sodium/fats, imbalances in gastric acid due to stesses & modern ltfestyle, bile and bicarbonate leading to changes in intestinal mucus lining, costipation or delayed motions etc. cause diabetes/elevated BG levels or IR, primarily?

No.No.

May be a pending consideration for future. Any role of mucus lining/layer?

I have noted craving for taking more sugar sufficiently decreased even in chronic type2 with IR parient, when one discontinue or reduce salt intake for some time. HOW??

No special connection, except when you change your eating habits, your eating habits ... change.

Dynamic thought. Pending for future. Intestinal Acrive transport/Na-KATP pump/Na-Sugar co-transport... role??

Already explained. Read Rolfe's excellent and comprehensive explanation on how glucose is excreted in urine. And, of course, as usual you put the cart before the horse. Glucose in the urine is CAUSED by diabetes, not the other way around .
No.


Bit incomplete post from Rolfe. That is normal condition. If Kidney's threshold can change & it can absorb more glucose due to any disorder, it will then be a Renal disorder not diabet



Kumar, you have just (again) confirmed you are a total idiot.

Can be due to dynamic & different thinking. But still 1% positive will mean more against 99% routines. T

This is not a violation of rule 8, but a factual observation. You ask questions you don't understand the implications of, you get answers and ignore or misrepresent them. You keep developing silly, unnecessary theories that don't fit the facts you have been provided with.

No these are discussions or dynamic/different discussions.:D

Maybe you think we are all wrong and don't know what we are talking about, but then you are even more idiotic by commencing to build theories on what we tell you.

I just feel/finds "God is in everyone(omni) and everyone is one form/son of God".:) No one can be idiot unless idiocy is also ine kind of HIS aspect.

You are a total loss. Even at the homeopathic forums they laugh at you. Even they can see how silly you are.

Dynamic, different, logical, new...thoghts & good thinking for humanity can will do that(compare nailing) in current age. So I don't feel it.

Bye, Kumar.

Don't restrict yourself, you may not be able to resist to do for good in future. Overexhaustation/tiredness/manipulation can be one prime cause of irritation, but hard-work for good can relax you.:D
 
MRC_Hans said:
Total raving nonsense.
Total nonsense.
The meaning is that you are wrong. W. R. O. N. G. Your entire "theory" is gibberish, grabbed out of thin air. It is contrary to known facts, it lacks inner logic, and, to top it, it is useless.
[Basil Fawlty]Otherwise OK?[/Basil Fawlty]
 
Kumar said:
Ok, how obesity/central obesity is a prime cause of getting IR condition? Is it fat deposit/ somewhat fatty degenaration result unto IR condition or otherwise?

We do not know for sure (already told you this).

Is ir all body cells?

I'm not sure, I think the brain is excluded.

Total raving nonsense.
Total nonsense.
The meaning is that you are wrong. W. R. O. N. G. Your entire "theory" is gibberish, grabbed out of thin air. It is contrary to known facts, it lacks inner logic, and, to top it, it is useless.



HOW??

I really don't know how you manage to be so consistently wrong. I have not seen a so structured person that is so persistently wrong before. I suppose it is really worth a study.

How them 5-10% weight loss within few days can be possible except fasting?

Can't it also possible by losing more water in excess urination?

It is possible through loss of water. This loss can be induced by several things, for instance:

- Not drinking.
- Excessive sweating (due to exercise and/or heat).
- Using diuretics.



May be a pending consideration for future. Any role of mucus lining/layer?

No, and no.

Dynamic thought. Pending for future. Intestinal Acrive transport/Na-KATP pump/Na-Sugar co-transport... role??

Debunked earlier. Whack-a-mole again.

Bit incomplete post from Rolfe.

No.

That is normal condition.

No, Rolfe explained the diabetes situation. Not her fault if you cannot understand it.

If Kidney's threshold can change & it can absorb more glucose due to any disorder, it will then be a Renal disorder not diabet

I am not certain that there cannot be some renal disorder that results in glucose in the urine, but this is not relevant to diabetes.

Can be due to dynamic & different thinking.

"Different" I agree. I'm less sure about "thinking". There is certainly nothing dynamic about klinging to silly ideas in the face of logic and counterevidence. In fact, that is about as undynamic as you can get.

.... Wait! I realize that this is the homeopathic definition of "dynamic" as in "homeopathic remedies are dynamized medicine". In this definition, "dynamic"="nonexistent". OK, Kumar, then I agree: Your thinking is VERY dynamic, indeed.



I just feel/finds "God is in everyone(omni) and everyone is one form/son of God".:) No one can be idiot unless idiocy is also ine kind of HIS aspect.

Well, then you are the living proof of God's idiotic aspect.

Dynamic, different, logical, new...thoghts & good thinking for humanity can will do that(compare nailing) in current age. So I don't feel it.

Perhaps you should give it a bit of thought; are you wrong or is the rest of the world wrong?

Hans
 
Kumar[/i] [B]If Kidney's threshold can change & it can absorb more glucose due to any disorder said:
I am not certain that there cannot be some renal disorder that results in glucose in the urine, but this is not relevant to diabetes.
Actually, Rolfe covered this as well.
 
MRC_Hans said:
I am not certain that there cannot be some renal disorder that results in glucose in the urine, but this is not relevant to diabetes.
As Mojo mentioned, I did cover this in another post. Renal glycosuria, defined as the presence of glucose in the urine despite a normal blood glucose concentration (alternatively, you could define it as an abnormally low glucose threshold), is a disease of the kidney. There is no association with diabetes mellitus.

Regarding abnormally high glucose threshold, ancdotally I'm aware of situations where long-term diabetic patients may have negative urine glucose despite blood glucose concentrations over 10mmol/l. I understand this is thought to be an adaptive mechanism to minimise the loss of glucose in the urine, and it was a bit problematic in the days when diabetic monitoring was mostly based on urine glucose testing, as a negative didn't necessarily mean what a negative would mean in a patient with a normal glucose threshold. However, it's not something I'm really familiar with, and I'm open to correction by someone who knows more about this aspect.

Nevertheless, renal glycosuria is purely a kidney disease, and high renal glucose threshold, if it happens, is something associated with a very long-standing diabetic condition - a consequence, not a cause.

And the only other thing I can think of that's relevant is that prolonged glycosuria tends to predispose to urinary tract infections, because the glucose provides a good substrate for bacteria.

Kumar's been at the bass-ackwards machine again.

Rolfe.
 
Kumar said:
Let me complete the replies. Pls try to write in language understoodable to me, if it is for me..

Although I am very flexible to change & correct, What made you to think alike that?;)

Shame on you! You've made the Good Grammar Fairy cry.
 
Donks said:
Can you imagine what it must have been like for Kumar's teachers? They probably wished for the sweet release of death on a daily basis.


Yes, but whose?
 
Insulin resistance can also occur in people who have type 1 diabetes, especially if they are overweight.

..Metabolic Syndrome
Metabolic syndrome is defined by the National Cholesterol Education Program as the presence of any three of the following conditions:

excess weight around the waist (waist measurement of more than 40 inches for men and more than 35 inches for women)


high levels of triglycerides (150 mg/dL or higher)


low levels of HDL, or "good," cholesterol (below 40 mg/dL for men and below 50 mg/dL for women)..

Insulin resistance plays a role in the development of cardiovascular disease, which damages the heart and blood vessels.

http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/insulinresistance/

How does it tells that IR is also possible in type1?

This tells excess weight around the waist in IR/Metabolic Syndrome cases.

How lipid levels are higher in IR/Metabolic Syndrome cases & how Insulin resistance plays a role in the development of cardiovascular disease, which damages the heart and blood vessels?
 
Glycosuria refers to sugar in the urine. Less than 0.1% of glucose normally filtered by the glomeruli appears in the urine, and less than 130 mg should appear in the urine over a 24-hour period. Glucose is present in glomerular filtrate but is reabsorbed by the kidney's proximal tubule. If the blood glucose level exceeds the capacity of the tubules to reabsorb all the glucose present in the glomerular filtrate, the renal threshold is reached and glucose spills into the urine. A finding of glycosuria indicates that the person is hyperglycemic or has a lowered renal threshold for glucose. The renal threshold for glucose is approximately 160 to 190mg/dl of blood; glucose does not appear in the urine until the blood glucose rises above this level.

Occasionally, glycosuria may be a normal finding, such as after eating a heavy meal or during times of emotional stress. Some individuals have a benign condition in which they have a lower than usual renal threshold for glucose, but have normal blood glucose levels. In pregnancy, the renal threshold for glucose may be lowered so that small amounts of glycosuria may be present. Patients on hyperalimentation may have glycosuria if the carbohydrate solution is being infused faster than the pancreas can produce insulin. The most common reason for glycosuria is diabetes mellitus.
http://www.rnceus.com/ua/uagly.html

What about concentration of urine & amount of toal urine excreted? Can low total amount of urine increase urine sugar level? What can cause low amount of urine in DM?

Other reasons are also there for glycosuria but the most common reason is diabetes mellitus.

Whether excess urination in night is also related to low pH of urine?
 

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