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Question for Ryan Mackey

1. There was a REAL investigation. Your phrasology is simply code for we want OUR investigation, which is basically a biased, skewed, paranoid driven witch hunt with nothing close to the actual truth actually desired.

2. The 2.25 seconds of WTC7 North Face Free Fall time is being discussed in another thread, so I suggest you take it there. Not that it matters. You nor none of your ilk can get past what NIST actually said, versus what Chandler and others have WARPED and TWISTED it into.

TAM:)

The Troofers want the conclusion of the report pasted on the front page of the report then all the rest will be supporting that conclusion.
 
So it seems NIST considers these terms to be different, but it's not clear from context what that difference is.



Reading more of that, on page 347, they mention "Now consider the force carried by the shear studs attaching the floor beam to the floor slab when there was little or no lateral resistance provided by the girder" and, in the paragraph bridging pages 347-8, "The nominal capacity of a 3/4 in. stud is roughly 20 kip at room temperature (Chapter 11); thus one would expect that, when a floor beam is not restrained from thermally expanding, while the floor slab to which it is attached with shear studs is restrained due to its in-plane stiffness, the shear studs will fail and the floor beam will have little resistance to thermal expansion or to lateral-torsional buckling."

From this, it seems clear that the "shear studs" are a small (3/4 inch) connector between the floor beams and the floor slab. The elements labelled "studs" in the diagram of fig 5 of the paper cited would be what NIST is calling the "floor beams".


At the top of page 346, NCSTAR says, "In WTC 7, no studs were installed on the girders (Cantor 1985). Thus, in those locations where there were no opposing beams, resistance to thermal expansion of the floor beams would have been provided primarily by the lateral stiffness of the girder".

I suspect this was the "Gotcha!" phrase that superlogicalthinker is latched onto. Of course, we can see that they're discussing a completely different element that the "studs" labelled in that figure, and they only say they didn't exist in one part of the structure - on the girders. We should also note that they consistently make a distinction between the "girders" and the "floor beams" (See, for instance, their Fig. 8-19 on page 346). It's clear from the rest of the document that these shear studs did exist between the floor beams and floor slabs.

So, busted.
 
... I don't easily call people liars, and tend to give the benefit of the doubt, so I think naive might be the descriptive word for people like yourself. Why don't you do some of your own calculations? Maybe then you will start to see the situation for what it is, rather than just quoting others.

You are the one who makes up delusions...
Wings, engine fan assemblies,
and the tail would have been
shredded after going through
perimeter beams and multiple
floors edge on
You sound like a no plane kind of guy with CD on the mind.
The vertical portion of the tail would have
also had this situation due to its height. Note how no full tail
imprint is seen.
You have unknown people setting up CD in the WTC, you have delusions.

You were and may always be the real cd deal. You were so proud the first day you spilled your delusions here.
The controlled demolition hypothesis appears to be the only realistic and sustainable explanation for the evidence observed in the very rapid complete collapses of the three buildings in NYC on Sept. 11, 2001.
As it has not been considered by any of the U.S. government sponsored investigations thus far, it is essential that a new investigation be initiated to determine who would have had access to these buildings with the ability to plant charges in them, as well as who detonated these charges.
CD was considered, why do you tell lies?

9 years of failure are hard to take, why do you insist on making it 10?

Publish anything in a real journal yet to garner your Pulitzer Prize? Why are the bad guys letting you expose them? Where is your evidence?

If the buildings were a CD plot, was CD used at the Pentagon flyover, or the no crash 93? What is your big picture; please start a thread, "what you knew and when, or complete picture of 911".?
 
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Reading more of that, on page 347, they mention "Now consider the force carried by the shear studs attaching the floor beam to the floor slab when there was little or no lateral resistance provided by the girder" and, in the paragraph bridging pages 347-8, "The nominal capacity of a 3/4 in. stud is roughly 20 kip at room temperature (Chapter 11); thus one would expect that, when a floor beam is not restrained from thermally expanding, while the floor slab to which it is attached with shear studs is restrained due to its in-plane stiffness, the shear studs will fail and the floor beam will have little resistance to thermal expansion or to lateral-torsional buckling."

From this, it seems clear that the "shear studs" are a small (3/4 inch) connector between the floor beams and the floor slab. The elements labelled "studs" in the diagram of fig 5 of the paper cited would be what NIST is calling the "floor beams".


At the top of page 346, NCSTAR says, "In WTC 7, no studs were installed on the girders (Cantor 1985). Thus, in those locations where there were no opposing beams, resistance to thermal expansion of the floor beams would have been provided primarily by the lateral stiffness of the girder".

I suspect this was the "Gotcha!" phrase that superlogicalthinker is latched onto. Of course, we can see that they're discussing a completely different element that the "studs" labelled in that figure, and they only say they didn't exist in one part of the structure - on the girders. We should also note that they consistently make a distinction between the "girders" and the "floor beams" (See, for instance, their Fig. 8-19 on page 346). It's clear from the rest of the document that these shear studs did exist between the floor beams and floor slabs.

So, busted.

Horatius:

Where are you getting page 346 etc...

Are we all using the same report. I am referencing the FINAL REPORT on WTC7 from NIST. It only goes as high as page 88 (130 pages of PDF).

Are you referencing the 2004-2007 draft report, or am I reading some summary report???

TAM:)
 
right, so I am assuming he is not using the FINAL REPORT.

TAM:)

You did not know that the November 2008 report incorporated...

NCSTAR 1-9A (172 pages)
NCSTAR 1-9 Vol 1 (404 pages)
NCSTAR 1-9 Vol 2 (392 pages)

?

796 extra pages on your reading list ?
 
At some point you will realise that reading the report, rather than bluffing, will make these discussions easier.:)
It has not helped you drop the delusion of CD. And you failed to read the report on One Meridian Plaza and you lied about what it said. Better clean up your 911 truth act first.

9 years of failure, and the best you can do is pretend you read NIST and are up to speed, while you are ashamed of your CD fantasy.

Why bring up NIST, it fails to support your CD claims, shoot down theories, and other nonsense.

Are you bluffing about CD? Got some evidence yet? >9 years
 
At some point you will realise that reading the report, rather than bluffing, will make these discussions easier.:)



Well, it would, if the people we're discussing it with represented the report accurately. Did you read my posts above?
 
Based on the quality of your replies, I think you must be referring to an old coloring book.

MM

Well I was referring to the coloring book earlier, but then I tossed the CIT ******** away and started to re-read the FINAL REPORT of WTC7.

TAM:D
 
Well I was referring to the coloring book earlier, but then I tossed the CIT ******** away and started to re-read the FINAL REPORT of WTC7.

TAM:D
Well in that case maybe you might address some of my replies to you?

Or do you feel that answering responses to your accusations is beneath you?

MM
 


TAM, you can find a nice handy PDF with the text changes between the draft and the final versions of 1-9 and 1-9A at the bottom of that link. You know, the companions you weren't aware of while they are frequently refered to in 1A.

Give it a try, it's only one page with 19kb. But no pictures.

:rolleyes:
 
TAM, you can find a nice handy PDF with the text changes between the draft and the final versions of 1-9 and 1-9A at the bottom of that link. You know, the companions you weren't aware of while they are frequently refered to in 1A.

Give it a try, it's only one page with 19kb. But no pictures.

:rolleyes:

No pictures? Then how on earth did you ever get through it?

TAM:D
 
Reading more of that, on page 347, they mention "Now consider the force carried by the shear studs attaching the floor beam to the floor slab when there was little or no lateral resistance provided by the girder" and, in the paragraph bridging pages 347-8, "The nominal capacity of a 3/4 in. stud is roughly 20 kip at room temperature (Chapter 11); thus one would expect that, when a floor beam is not restrained from thermally expanding, while the floor slab to which it is attached with shear studs is restrained due to its in-plane stiffness, the shear studs will fail and the floor beam will have little resistance to thermal expansion or to lateral-torsional buckling."

From this, it seems clear that the "shear studs" are a small (3/4 inch) connector between the floor beams and the floor slab. The elements labelled "studs" in the diagram of fig 5 of the paper cited would be what NIST is calling the "floor beams".


At the top of page 346, NCSTAR says, "In WTC 7, no studs were installed on the girders (Cantor 1985). Thus, in those locations where there were no opposing beams, resistance to thermal expansion of the floor beams would have been provided primarily by the lateral stiffness of the girder".

I suspect this was the "Gotcha!" phrase that superlogicalthinker is latched onto. Of course, we can see that they're discussing a completely different element that the "studs" labelled in that figure, and they only say they didn't exist in one part of the structure - on the girders. We should also note that they consistently make a distinction between the "girders" and the "floor beams" (See, for instance, their Fig. 8-19 on page 346). It's clear from the rest of the document that these shear studs did exist between the floor beams and floor slabs.

So, busted.
Additionally, the drawing we see in post #215 is labelled “Figure 5-Typical Floor Framing” while the drawing (figure 8-16) we see on page 343 of NCSTAR 1-9 appears to be an as built drawing referring specifically to floors 12 and 13.

Anyone who’s ever worked in the construction trades should know the most reliable and accurate drawings are the as builts.

As a (former) trades person I don’t want to know how it was suppose to be built, I want to know how it was built.
 

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