Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
Well, that's convenient. Why not respond to my points rather than dodge them under cover of some nebulous suspicion?Originally posted by davefoc
Regnad Kcin,
Obviously you and I are going to disagree about this and I suspect that nothing that I say will bridge the gap.
And I demonstrated how "fair" was "exactly" what your questions weren't.However, I felt my questions were exactly fair given the point of this thread.
That the answer, for you, is an "easy yes" is troubling.I think the point of this thread was whether a person that generally votes Republican would feel the same way about Schwarzenegger if he did the same kinds of things that Clinton did with regard to his womanizing.
For me, the answer is an easy yes, if we are talking about what Clinton did and not womainizing in general. So to answer that question the specifics were important.
Never mind that Ms. Lewinsky initiated the consensual affair with Mr. Clinton, are you aware of what constitutes sexual harassment?And the specifics that made me feel that Clinton's behavior was significantly worse than a normal extramarital affair were:
1. Sex with a subordinate suggesting a conflict with sexual harassment restrictions
While it's charming that people tend to invest romantic characteristics on various inanimate objects, dispassionately speaking, it's just a nice little room.2. Sex with a person in the president's office suggesting a lack of respect for the office.
I'm loathe to rehash this; the situation presented complexities that resist snap judgments. But just one illustration, if I may.3. Lying about it under oath as part of a legal proceeding. Then lying about the lying.
1) Are you a law-abiding citizen?
2) Have you ever driven a vehicle over the speed limit?
Then you are in error. Impeachment is for "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."While I would have been disapointed by a president for activities similar to items 1 and 2 only item 3 would have concerned me to the point that I would have begun to see a justification for impeachment in it.
Would you consider a lie about what you had for lunch equal in importance to one about whether or not you stole the lunch? Naturally the answer is no, some lies relate to matters of more import than others. So, too, were President Clinton's, who was understandably hoping to avoid embarrassment for both him and his family. And on a matter of private behavior.You are right that perjury is routinely committed and not punished in our legal system. However, I view it as a very serious act. I think that it is even more serious when it is committed by a person responsible for appointing of judges where integrity is a critical factor.
Incidentally, I'm heartened by Mr. Schwarzeneggar's denunciation of the specious attacks on and impeachment of Mr. Clinton.
I raised the issue to demonstrate my tendancy to avoide assumptions prior to making assertions. By all accounts, we can gather that the Clinton's marriage is not open, otherwise their behavior might have been significantly different, both at the time of the revelations and in the years since. In any event, I am unconcerned about what a person does in private so long as it does not conflict with their official duties.Perhaps, the only place where you and I are in agreement was in your comment about how did I know if a trust was broken. I don't think any of us know about this when we look at the outside of a marriage and clearly in some marriages monogamy is not part of the bargain.
Would I prefer that Mr. Clinton hadn't made such a boneheaded error? Of course. But his (or anyone's) human failings do not necessarily provide a rationale for dismissing the person's good works. By the same token, Mr. Bush's apparent marital fidelity does not automatically elevate his job performance above scrutiny.
Should it be found that Arnold Schwarzeneggar has one or more pretty young skeletons in his closet, I fear that a lot of people will be very happy to attempt to strike up the band with a rousing rendition of "Republican Hypocrisy." And it's a safe prediction that they in turn will all sing variations on the "It's Different 'Cause Clinton Lied Under Oath" oldie. But it's to the detriment of our system that time should ever be wasted by any one of those who just can't carry a tune in the first place.