Question about racial purity

[epepke]

Maybe I am just thinking of culture (I'm not convinced).

I think you are thinking of culture.

I also lament the loss of cultures. However, it may turn out that a certain homogenization is the price we pay for peace.

Also, it's worth pointing out that there has never been, nor ever will there be anything remotely resembling a pure culture. All cultures are pastiches.

 

[Chanileslie]

You're just trying to make that excuse so you don't have to admit your daughter's pink hair is non-racially related. Or something garbled that made more sense in my head than it does on print. *sighs* I think I just messed this up.

Yes, I admit it. She died her hair so she could 'pass' as one of them*.





*Them as in whoever is consider to be the superior.

 

[Luke T.]

I heard on the news last night that in 50 years, whites will make up less than 50 percent of the American population. I must admit that made me feel uncomfortable.

 

[Bearguin]

I think you are thinking of culture.

I also lament the loss of cultures. However, it may turn out that a certain homogenization is the price we pay for peace.

Also, it's worth pointing out that there has never been, nor ever will there be anything remotely resembling a pure culture. All cultures are pastiches.

I just wonder if the homogenization is a good thing.

I get that there is no true Scotsman and that we are the product of inter-breeding that has happened over the centuries. But it is sad to see some cultural idea or traditions forgotten. Even the less sane things.

I guess egarret is right on this information being saved in books. It just seems like something is lost with the melting pot approach.

 

[Luke T.]

Ever since I heard that news bit, I've been trying to figure out why I felt uncomfortable about it. After all, I've spent a lot of time on Stormfront fighting with white nationalists! I am sure they would be amused to know of my discomfort.

I think I have just figured it out, though. When I was in the military, blacks would sit with blacks and whites with whites and hispanics with hispanics in the chow hall. Everyone did this by choice. It wasn't racism, I don't think. I think it is just that we are each more comfortable with our own "kind." It is a culture thing. And, unfortunately, there really no longer is an "American culture" as there was when this was an almost completely white nation.

Most of the various cultures in America were brought here by that group's immigrants. Many of these end up absorbed into the wider culture over time. Assimilation.

But we can only absorb so much in a given period of time. Too much variation creates friction. I used to be all for wide open borders because I believe everyone should have a shot at freedom, but I now believe our own culture which ensures that freedom is jeopardized by oversaturation of foreign immigration. We need to take it slow.

I think we are going too fast. I think this will lead to enclaves, or separatism, of various cultures within the country. Which means whole pockets will be mentally (and therefore physically) off-limits to those who aren't of that particular enclave's race. And I hate the idea of parts of America being closed off to me.

I wrote this really fast, which is probably a bad idea in the "critical thinking" forum. Hope it makes sense.

 

[epepke]

I just wonder if the homogenization is a good thing.

If I had my druthers, and in the absence of any counterindications, I'd prefer to see it not happen.

However, as it seems I was not clear enough the first time around, I'll try to be clearer this time. People use cultural differences as an excuse to slaughter each other.

Now, while I may have some trouble with homogenization, I definitely have trouble with slaughter. There's no doubt in my mind that having your head hacked off with a machete and having your tongue pulled out so that the head looks extra-garish will ruin your day.

It was the liberal dream of the 60s that some way would be found to keep cultural diversity without the slaughter. I still haven't ruled out the possibility that it might happen. However, so far, attempts haven't exactly been a stellar success. There are examples of cultures getting along for hundreds of years and then someone gets the genocide bug. There's an exhibit at one Holocaust Museum in the US of photos of people from a small town in Poland. Jews had lived there for 600 years in peace alongside Christians. Almost all of them were gassed.

Frankly, I think the best success so far has been the United States. Not always, but since the time of the genocide against Native Americans. There are separate cultures here, with some common ground. The price we pay is a constant low level of violence, the handgun murders (very few of which actually are cross-cultural, but some of which are).

Of course, the US is the laughing stock of Europe because of this. However, the US has gone about twice as long without a major genocide as Europe and at least five times as long without a genocide of any sort (assuming that lynching is a form of genocide). And both the records of the US and Europe are still piddling with respect to things that have happened before.

Unless someone comes up with a really brilliant idea pretty soon, I expect that it will be a minimum of a couple of hundred years before humanity gets its act together. In the mean time, a lot of indigenous cultures are going to be lost. But since there exist weapons that could kill a goodly portion of the people alive today, it's possible that preventing them from doing so is more important.

It's not an easy question, and I don't have an easy answer.

 

[epepke]

I respond to myself. I have a "brilliant" idea that could make things a lot better. Make anthropology an essential part of education, everywhere. It's a lot harder to hate other cultures when you've had serious, formal training in anthropology.

But that, of course, would itself require violation of cultural standards that oppose anthropology.

And like it's ever gonna happen.

 

[LFTKBS]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question about racial purity

Good, so do I. The problem that is the world our grand children will be living in, but it won't be Aryan.

OMG you foolz0red me!!!1

What's your point? Those Aztlan people are as racist as the Stromfront people who are as racist as the Five Percenters.

And Luke, I don't see how "whites" not being a huge majority in x years is such a big deal. Who cares?

 

[Blue Monk]

Back in high school a million years ago, I trained for the 600 yard dash. But I never trained for hurdles or cross-country. So I guess that made me a racial purist...

Well you can bet that if I ever attended one of your races it would have been in the stands, in the shade, with a tall-boy.

I am clearly a non-racist.

 

[Outcast]

Re: Re: Re: Question about racial purity

You realize that all this stuff happened after Rome switched over to Christianity, right? Just saying.

For others: how many "races" are there? Three? Sixty? What race is Tiger Woods? What race is someone born to an English father and an Agentinian mother? Are Australian aborigines black even though they're more distant from "black" Americans than "black" Americans are from "white" Americans?

"The Muslim are making demands on our school system to conform to their religious beliefs. If Christians made any one of those demand, the ACLU would be up in arms."

What country do you live in, Outcast? As far as I can tell, it's Christians who fight to get their creation story taught as science, not Muslims. It's Christians who try to put "thou shalt have no other gods before me" in the courts, not Muslims.

"Anti-Catholic films and filthy and blasphemous anti-Christian art are the deliberate insults of a triumphant pagan and secularist faith."

And yet Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ" is the #1 movie in America.

I mean, when you're quoting Buchanan, you know know your argument is bunk.

Finally, to jj: so did you kill the guy or what?

Oh, finally, part 2: Remember when the Irish weren't considered white? Or Italians? Race isn't simple.

As I said earlier

don't like the term "racial purity." I like the term racial identity better. Which race do you identify with? Who do you feel comfortable with? Where do you fit in?

So which race does Tiger Woods seem to identity with. He doesn’t seem to identify with the Black race. I don’t see him involved or being a spokesman in Black causes and issues.

The man who has it right is Tiger Woods, the 21-year-old golfer who electrified the US by winning the Masters tournament - and then outraged practically everybody by announcing on the Oprah Winfrey show that he does not see himself as "black," but as "Cablinasian." Cablinasian

I live in the USA if you haven’t guessed and in the South I might add. Does that explain any of my thinking? Though I am a Christian, I have a lot of problems with the traditional Christian teachings.

And yet Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ" is the #1 movie in America. (Was)

Haven’t seen it yet, but I think the Christians over estimate the impact of that film.

No I don’t know that Pat Buchanan is bunk. You may disagree with him, but disagreeing and discrediting are not the same.

Oh, finally, part 2: Remember when the Irish weren't considered white? Or Italians? Race isn't simple

OLSON JOHNSON: All right. We'll give some land to the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ and the chinks. But we don't want the Irish. From Blazing Saddles.

Interesting how they went from the “◊◊◊◊◊◊◊” of the White race to President in 100 years.

 

[Outcast]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question about racial purity

OMG you foolz0red me!!!1

What's your point? Those Aztlan people are as racist as the Stromfront people who are as racist as the Five Percenters.

And Luke, I don't see how "whites" not being a huge majority in x years is such a big deal. Who cares?

Well for one thing the Stormfront people are all talk and no action. The Chicanos are acting on their believes to supplant our European Culture with a Latino Culture. I know you don't take this serious, but nobody took Hitler's Mein Kampf serious either when it was written.

 

[epepke]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Question about racial purity

As I said earlier So which race does Tiger Woods seem to identity with. He doesn’t seem to identify with the Black race.

He had an interesting word to describe what "race" he was. I don't remember it, but it certainly wasn't one of the common ones.

You have to hand it to him, though. He turned the US Open into a Black-Thai affair.

 

[Outcast]

Ever since I heard that news bit, I've been trying to figure out why I felt uncomfortable about it. After all, I've spent a lot of time on Stormfront fighting with white nationalists! I am sure they would be amused to know of my discomfort.

I think I have just figured it out, though. When I was in the military, blacks would sit with blacks and whites with whites and hispanics with hispanics in the chow hall. Everyone did this by choice. It wasn't racism, I don't think. I think it is just that we are each more comfortable with our own "kind." It is a culture thing. And, unfortunately, there really no longer is an "American culture" as there was when this was an almost completely white nation.

Most of the various cultures in America were brought here by that group's immigrants. Many of these end up absorbed into the wider culture over time. Assimilation.

But we can only absorb so much in a given period of time. Too much variation creates friction. I used to be all for wide open borders because I believe everyone should have a shot at freedom, but I now believe our own culture which ensures that freedom is jeopardized by oversaturation of foreign immigration. We need to take it slow.

I think we are going too fast. I think this will lead to enclaves, or separatism, of various cultures within the country. Which means whole pockets will be mentally (and therefore physically) off-limits to those who aren't of that particular enclave's race. And I hate the idea of parts of America being closed off to me.

I wrote this really fast, which is probably a bad idea in the "critical thinking" forum. Hope it makes sense.

What we are seeing here in America is no different than the ethnic cleansing that the Serbs tried in Kosova. They tired to do it a matter of months and failed. The Chicanos see the ethnic cleansing of America in terms of generations, two, maybe three at the most. It doesn’t matter if ethnic cleansing take place over months or generations, the results are the same.

Prior to 1965 Immigration Act, we took in about 100,000 legal immigrants a year. Now we take in over 1,000,000 a year. A large influx of immigrates allow them to set viable a social economical cultural system a foreign country. In the past every major city had its “ Little Italy” or “Chinatown,” but these enclaves were too small to be self sustaining.

When I was in the military, blacks would sit with blacks and whites with whites and Hispanics with Hispanics in the chow hall. Everyone did this by choice

The term is polarization or voluntary segregation. Every group is allowed to do it except Whites.

Luke, part of the problem is, if you express a love or pride in your race, you are labeled a racist. You are attacked for loving your country. The same thing when LFTKBS says Pat Buchanan, is bunk. You got to have a thick skin to believe in your race, culture and country

 

[Outcast]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question about racial purity

He had an interesting word to describe what "race" he was. I don't remember it, but it certainly wasn't one of the common ones.

You have to hand it to him, though. He turned the US Open into a Black-Thai affair.

I used the term earlier.

Cablinasian

The man who has it right is Tiger Woods, the 21-year-old golfer who electrified the US by winning the Masters tournament - and then outraged practically everybody by announcing on the Oprah Winfrey show that he does not see himself as "black," but as "Cablinasian."

 

[epepke]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question about racial purity

I used the term earlier.

Cool, or as they would say now, dope!

Thanks.

 

[Blue Monk]

I must admit that I find cultural fear the epitome of ignorance.

You would be hard pressed to find someone more opposed to a white-European only culture than myself. I can’t imagine why anyone would prefer such a bland uniform lifestyle when they could have the opportunity to enjoy so many aspects of different cultures.

Growing up in Texas I’ve always been at home in the Latino culture. I currently live in a very nice black neighborhood with a large segment of Latinos. My neighbor and I are the only whites and guess what? I like it here. It would be a great place to raise children if I had any. When I walk to the store and wave at my neighbor why should I care what color of hand waves back?

I consider myself fortunate to be able to celebrate Wurstfest, Cinco De Mayo and Juneteenth right along with the 4th of July.

The capacity to appreciate culture is like the capacity to love. It’s unlimited and just like love you choose which cultures and which aspects to embrace or ignore.

I’ve been immersed in these ‘foreign’ cultures since birth and I cannot think of a single aspect of my German-English heritage that has been stripped of me as a result. On the other hand, I could not possibly list all the wonderful ideas, sights, sounds and smells that have enriched my life as a result of living in a society of varied cultures; experiences that are a part of me that I would never give up.

The idea that you are ‘protecting’ a pure culture is absurd. You count to ten in numbers that are the product of the Arab mind. You practice Monotheism, a product of the Jewish mind. Go back and look up the roots to all of the words in your previous post. You will find that even the English language is the product of many diverse cultures. The buttons on your suit coat sleeves comes from the French. Napoleon had them sewed on the sleeves of his army’s uniforms to keep them from wiping their noses with them and the style stuck. Thank the Italians (Romans) for giving you a basis for government. Thank the Chinese for supplying you with the knowledge of gunpowder that allowed you to carve out an empire. This list goes on forever.

The idea that a single culture has somehow achieved the epitome of what a culture can achieve is absurd. To shun other cultures for fear of ‘contamination’ is not the path to strength, it is the path to stagnation.

Illegal immigration is a legitimate concern, especially in California where the system is buckling under the weight, but if you think I’m going to be more alarmed due to the fact that they are Latinos as opposed to white Europeans you’re talking to the wrong guy.

 

[Bearguin]

Frankly, I think the best success so far has been the United States. Not always, but since the time of the genocide against Native Americans. There are separate cultures here, with some common ground. The price we pay is a constant low level of violence, the handgun murders (very few of which actually are cross-cultural, but some of which are).

I'd have to say that I think parts of Canada have done it better. Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal all have thriving minority communities, not dictated by law but formed out of desire.

Not all of Canada can make this claim. I happen to live in a predominately white town. Very few of Asian, Indian or African descent. Kind of dissapointing. But for the most part, Canada is not doing bad.

 

[epepke]

I consider myself fortunate to be able to celebrate Wurstfest, Cinco De Mayo and Juneteenth right along with the 4th of July.

This illustrates my point. I spent two months in Mexico learning how to teach English. We practiced on natives, who got free lessons. One of my lessons involved dates; a hard lesson. I went out and bought a book on Mexican history to make it relevant. (BTW, Mexican schoolbooks are excellent, but hardly anybody can afford them.)

What I found out was that hardly any Mexicans have any idea about Cinco de Mayo. Although the date has significance in Mexican history, few Mexicans know or care about it at all. Cinco de Mayo is an American holiday. people.

As for Wurstfest, try Fasching for a real German holiday. Juneteenth is certainly American.

 

[Outcast]

I must admit that I find cultural fear the epitome of ignorance.

You would be hard pressed to find someone more opposed to a white-European only culture than myself. I can’t imagine why anyone would prefer such a bland uniform lifestyle when they could have the opportunity to enjoy so many aspects of different cultures.

Growing up in Texas I’ve always been at home in the Latino culture. I currently live in a very nice black neighborhood with a large segment of Latinos. My neighbor and I are the only whites and guess what? I like it here. It would be a great place to raise children if I had any. When I walk to the store and wave at my neighbor why should I care what color of hand waves back?

I consider myself fortunate to be able to celebrate Wurstfest, Cinco De Mayo and Juneteenth right along with the 4th of July.

The capacity to appreciate culture is like the capacity to love. It’s unlimited and just like love you choose which cultures and which aspects to embrace or ignore.

I’ve been immersed in these ‘foreign’ cultures since birth and I cannot think of a single aspect of my German-English heritage that has been stripped of me as a result. On the other hand, I could not possibly list all the wonderful ideas, sights, sounds and smells that have enriched my life as a result of living in a society of varied cultures; experiences that are a part of me that I would never give up.

The idea that you are ‘protecting’ a pure culture is absurd. You count to ten in numbers that are the product of the Arab mind. You practice Monotheism, a product of the Jewish mind. Go back and look up the roots to all of the words in your previous post. You will find that even the English language is the product of many diverse cultures. The buttons on your suit coat sleeves comes from the French. Napoleon had them sewed on the sleeves of his army’s uniforms to keep them from wiping their noses with them and the style stuck. Thank the Italians (Romans) for giving you a basis for government. Thank the Chinese for supplying you with the knowledge of gunpowder that allowed you to carve out an empire. This list goes on forever.

The idea that a single culture has somehow achieved the epitome of what a culture can achieve is absurd. To shun other cultures for fear of ‘contamination’ is not the path to strength, it is the path to stagnation.

Illegal immigration is a legitimate concern, especially in California where the system is buckling under the weight, but if you think I’m going to be more alarmed due to the fact that they are Latinos as opposed to white Europeans you’re talking to the wrong guy.

You would be hard pressed to find someone more supportive of a white-European only culture than myself.

I prefer to think of America and Europe as a Judo-Christian Western Civilization. I agree that isolation leads to stagnation. One only has to look to China or Japan’s history for that lesson. I also see what happens to cultures that are subject to to much change to quickly, they no longer exist. So many of the primitive society survive only in museums or as tourist destinations.

The “Judo-Christian Western Civilization” has given more to the world than all the other cultures combined. We have also destroyed more. I have seen the poverty and lawlessness in Latin America. I do not want that for my grandchildren.

I too lived in a mixed neighborhood. I would describe mine as working middle class blue collar with a mix of retirees.

 

[Blue Monk]

This illustrates my point. I spent two months in Mexico learning how to teach English. We practiced on natives, who got free lessons. One of my lessons involved dates; a hard lesson. I went out and bought a book on Mexican history to make it relevant. (BTW, Mexican schoolbooks are excellent, but hardly anybody can afford them.)

What I found out was that hardly any Mexicans have any idea about Cinco de Mayo. Although the date has significance in Mexican history, few Mexicans know or care about it at all. Cinco de Mayo is an American holiday. people.

As for Wurstfest, try Fasching for a real German holiday. Juneteenth is certainly American.

I suppose your statements would have relevance had I been discussing Mexican culture but of course I was not. I was speaking of my culture, Texas culture.

Cinco De Mayo does not celebrate Mexico’s Independence from Spain as many believe but rather a decisive battle won on May 5, 1862 against an army of French aggressors and Mexicans loyal to Spain. Many Texans took part in the battle with the army that crushed the French and Spanish loyalists and the army was in fact commanded by a Texan, Texas-born General Zaragosa. Zaragosa’s army was later aided by Union General Sherman.

So we celebrate Texas’s role in helping a people secure their freedom from a foreign oppressor, an ideal I would be most surprised to find is somehow detrimental to ‘white European’ values.

I suppose your statements concerning Wurstfest would have relevance had I been discussing German culture but of course I was not. I was speaking of my culture, Texas culture.

There was a time when Mexican laborers and German immigrants were lumped together in work camps especially when building the railroads. At night they’d gather around the fire and play music, the Latinos would play traditional Latin music and the Germans would play their polka. Eventually the music blended into a new form known as Conjunto.

So I guess you’d expect some sort of bastard culture emerged. Sorry but somehow all cultures remained intact. Down in the valley where there has always been a strong Latino population they go merrily on there way, unaware that they are supposed to act German and in places like Pflugerville and New Braunsfels they seem totally unaware that they should be speaking Spanish now and the rest of us garden variety Anglos go on drinking in honky-tonks and buying pick-ups, woefully ignorant that our culture has been destroyed when we weren’t looking.

And for the record, Juneteenth originated in Texas, in my culture. It commemorates the day that word reached Texas that the slaves had been freed. I hope you’d not suggest that the return of freedom and dignity to a peoples is somehow against American ideals.

All of these examples are the product of the co-existence of different cultures. Nothing was destroyed but new traditions and ideals were learned by all. Nothing lost but a great deal gained.